Minutes of WebOnt Meeting August 22, 2002 9:00-10:30 am pacific time from Deborah McGuinness on 2002-08-22 (www-webont-wg@w3.org from August 2002) (original) (raw)
Minutes of the WebOnt meeting on August 22, 2002. Scribe: Deborah McGuinness
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Aug/0153.html
Regrets: (as posted by Schreiber): Dean, Oberst, Wallace, Marchiori, ter Horst, Trastour, Yanosy
Irc Log: http://www.w3.org/2002/08/22-webont-irc#T17-31-46
Summary from IRC Log for attendees, scribe, action items and agreement below:
Attendees: (from irc log 16:15:57) John_Stanton, Libby, FrankvH, ??P15, Marwan_Sabbouh (muted), TimF, IanH, OraL, Guus, M_Smith, JeffH, EvanW, PeterPS, DebM, DanC, LarryE, Pat_Hayes, ??P13, 16:15:57 [Zakim] ... Jim_Hendler, Rudiger, +44.117.311.aacc, Buswell, Lynn_Stein
Scribe next week: Tim Finin
Action Items
ACTION: Pat will attempt to take abstract syntax, and Peter's MT and the mapping into RDF and will write a model theory in the Connolly style (i.e. as an extension to RDF MT) and see if he can identify the exact issues. Target deadline: three weeks (July 25). – change of due date to Aug 1, expected to be completed by Aug 19 DONE
ACTION Larry Eshelman to contribute example to how-to-do-it doc CONTINUED (with request from Eshelman for members to send part-whole examples to him and guus’ refinement of the request to send to the group).
ACTION (Raphael): will make a large ontology available to test readers. DONE
ACTION: Hendler produce test for issue 4.2 CONTINUED
ACTION: Dan C. to work with Pat H to reconcile the issues of missing discussion of model theory in the log DONE
ACTION: Jeremy Carroll to remove .rdf suffixes CONTINUED
ACTION: Chairs to forward hotel info for f2f4 to WebOnt DONE
ACTION: Chairs to determine location 5th ftf and inform group DONE (with discussion including some disagreement; discussion stopped when appeal out of telecom proposed).
ACTION: Guus to put together an example from his wine stuff - small part of ontology that contains this kind of region/PartOf example - for walkthru document CONTINUED
ACTION: Deb to take a shot at writing up the closed world example CONTINUED
ACTION: Guus to update UML document to reflect new Owl Lite CONTINUED (with take 2 weeks)
ACTION: JimH to inform SW-Cg of (very provisional, likely to slip) dependency WebOnt is taking on re: OMG interaction DONE
ACTION: Chairs to find an editor or process to produce the RDF/RDFS/OWL Lite/OWL comparison/discussion document. JimH to inform SW-CG this is being considered. CONTINUED
Discussion concerning F2F meeting discussion and Model Theory discussion please see the IRC log
ACTION: Hayes will do a revision of his model theory document that addresses major points raised in the teleconference by Monday.
AGREEMENT: 2 week discussion period on the model theory
ACTION – Peter Patel-Schneider will do a revision of his model theory that clarifies the relationship between his MT and RDFS and he will attempt to make this relationship non-trivial
Meeting adjourned after the action for patel-schneider (scribe should have noted this in log at approximately 17:29:40).
IRC log from: http://www.w3.org/2002/08/22-webont-irc#T17-31-46 Cut and paste below for completeness:
IRC log of webont on 2002-08-22 Timestamps are in UTC. 15:40:10 [RRSAgent] RRSAgent has joined #webont 15:40:15 [Zakim] Zakim has joined #webont 15:40:19 [DanCon] Zakim, this will be WebO 15:40:20 [Zakim] ok, DanCon 15:53:18 [DanConn] DanConn has joined #webont 15:54:21 [libby] libby has joined #webont 15:58:44 [schreiber] schreiber has joined #webont 15:59:03 [Zakim] SW_WebOnt()12:00PM has now started 15:59:09 [Zakim] +John_Stanton 16:00:28 [DanCon] DanCon has joined #webont 16:00:30 [Zakim] +??P13 16:00:43 [Zakim] +??P14 16:00:51 [DanC] Zakim, who's on the phone? 16:00:53 [Zakim] On the phone I see John_Stanton, ??P13, ??P14 16:00:53 [Zakim] +??P15 16:00:54 [Zakim] +??P16 16:00:59 [Zakim] +Marwan_Sabbouh 16:01:04 [libby] I think I'm ??P14 16:01:05 [schreiber] regrets: Dean, Oberst, Wallace, Marchiori, ter Horst, Trastour, Yanosy 16:01:08 [Zakim]
- +1.610.758.aaaa 16:01:20 [schreiber] zakim, ??p13 is GuusS 16:01:22 [Zakim] +GuusS; got it 16:01:23 [libby] zakim, ??P14 is libby 16:01:24 [Zakim] +Libby; got it 16:01:25 [Zakim] +??P19 16:01:33 [Zakim] +??P20 16:01:34 [Zakim] +??P24 16:01:40 [Zakim] +M_Smith 16:01:47 [DanC] agenda + 22Aug http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Aug/0153.html 16:02:07 [pfps] pfps has joined #webont 16:02:15 [Zakim] +??P21 16:02:42 [DanC] DanC has changed the topic to: WebOnt 22Aug. scribe: DebM 16:02:52 [Zakim]
- +1.908.233.aabb 16:02:52 [Zakim] +??P25 16:03:04 [schreiber] zakim, ??p20 is OraL 16:03:05 [Zakim] +OraL; got it 16:03:07 [Zakim] +??P27 16:03:15 [pfps] what is the page that gives Zakim status 16:03:22 [DanCon] DanCon has joined #webont 16:03:27 [Raphael] Raphael has joined #webont 16:03:31 [Raphael] Hi 16:03:39 [DanCon] hi 16:03:58 [jhendler] jhendler has joined #webont 16:04:00 [Zakim] +DanC 16:04:12 [jhendler] JimH running late - be on phone in 2-3 min = please start w/o me. 16:04:13 [Zakim] +??P29 16:04:47 [frankh] frankh has joined #webont 16:05:01 [dlm] dlm has joined #webont 16:05:14 [DanCon] q+ 16:05:17 [DanCon] q- 16:05:20 [DanCon] q+ 16:05:22 [dlm] mcguinness scribing 16:05:23 [DanCon] ack DanC 16:05:26 [dlm] Regrets: Borden, Carroll, Motta, de Roo, Stein (tentative) 16:05:38 [DanCon] q- 16:05:41 [dlm] q+ 16:05:42 [Zakim] +Pat_Hayes 16:05:46 [dlm] q- 16:05:48 [Zakim] -GuusS 16:06:13 [Zakim] +??P13 16:06:43 [DanCon] Zakim, who's on the phone? 16:06:44 [Zakim] On the phone I see John_Stanton, Libby, ??P16, ??P15, Marwan_Sabbouh, +1.610.758.aaaa, ??P19, OraL, ??P24, M_Smith, ??P21, ??P25, +1.908.233.aabb, ??P27, DanC, ??P29, Pat_Hayes, 16:06:46 [Zakim] ... ??P13 16:06:56 [schreiber] Dean, Oberst, Wallace, Marchiori, ter Horst, Trastour, Yanosy 16:06:59 [Zakim] +Jim_Hendler 16:07:11 [schreiber] Regrets: Dean, Oberst, Wallace, Marchiori, ter Horst, Trastour, Yanosy 16:07:13 [dlm] screiber's listing was additional regrets 16:07:32 [DanCon] I prefer an edited version of the IRC log afterward, but maybe that's just me; we'll see whether IRC logs are sufficient when we get to 1.2 on today's agenda. 16:07:43 [DanCon] Zakim, who's talkings? 16:07:44 [Zakim] I don't understand your question, DanCon. 16:07:47 [DanCon] Zakim, who's talking? 16:07:58 [Zakim] DanCon, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Marwan_Sabbouh (83%), DanC (80%) 16:08:06 [DanCon] Zakim, who's talking? 16:08:17 [Zakim] DanCon, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Marwan_Sabbouh (4%) 16:08:19 [Zakim] +??P31 16:08:38 [timfinin] timfinin has joined #webont 16:08:42 [DanCon] Zakim, mute Marwan 16:08:43 [Zakim] Marwan_Sabbouh should now be muted 16:09:07 [jhendler] zakim, who is here? 16:09:07 [dlm] 6 0 # unmutes yourself 16:09:08 [Zakim] On the phone I see John_Stanton, Libby, ??P16, ??P15, Marwan_Sabbouh (muted), +1.610.758.aaaa, ??P19, OraL, ??P24, M_Smith, ??P21, ??P25, +1.908.233.aabb, ??P27, DanC, ??P29, 16:09:10 [Zakim] ... Pat_Hayes, ??P13, Jim_Hendler, ??P31 16:09:11 [Zakim] On IRC I see timfinin, dlm, frankh, jhendler, Raphael, DanCon, pfps, schreiber, libby, Zakim, RRSAgent, logger_1 16:09:56 [dlm] stanton miller marwan ora smith connolly hayes hendler 16:10:08 [DanCon] Zakim, ??P16 is FrankvH 16:10:09 [Zakim] +FrankvH; got it 16:10:14 [DanCon] Zakim, ??P16 is TimF 16:10:16 [Zakim] sorry, DanCon, I do not recognize a party named '??P16' 16:10:20 [DanCon] Zakim, ??P19 is IanH 16:10:21 [Zakim] +IanH; got it 16:10:27 [DanCon] Zakim, ??P27 is DebM 16:10:28 [Zakim] +DebM; got it 16:10:38 [DanCon] Zakim, aabb is PeterPS 16:10:40 [Zakim] +PeterPS; got it 16:10:47 [DanCon] Zakim, who's on the phone? 16:10:48 [Zakim] On the phone I see John_Stanton, Libby, FrankvH, ??P15, Marwan_Sabbouh (muted), +1.610.758.aaaa, IanH, OraL, ??P24, M_Smith, ??P21, ??P25, PeterPS, DebM, DanC, ??P29, Pat_Hayes, 16:10:49 [timfinin] zakim, ??p16 is timfinin 16:10:51 [Zakim] ... ??P13, Jim_Hendler, ??P31 16:10:52 [Zakim] sorry, timfinin, I do not recognize a party named '??p16' 16:11:01 [DanCon] Zakim, ??p24 is Guus 16:11:05 [Zakim] +Guus; got it 16:11:09 [DanCon] Zakim, ??p25 is EvanW 16:11:11 [Zakim] +EvanW; got it 16:11:13 [DanCon] Zakim, who's on the phone? 16:11:15 [Zakim] On the phone I see John_Stanton, Libby, FrankvH, ??P15, Marwan_Sabbouh (muted), +1.610.758.aaaa, IanH, OraL, Guus, M_Smith, ??P21, EvanW, PeterPS, DebM, DanC, ??P29, Pat_Hayes, 16:11:16 [Zakim] ... ??P13, Jim_Hendler, ??P31 16:11:41 [DanCon] Zakim, aaaa is TimF 16:11:42 [Zakim] +TimF; got it 16:11:49 [DanCon] Zakim, ??p29 is LarryE 16:11:51 [Zakim] +LarryE; got it 16:12:02 [DanCon] Zakim, ??p21 is JeffH 16:12:03 [Zakim] +JeffH; got it 16:12:05 [jhendler] zakim, tell Ralph he should have a faster way to identify the ??P.. folks (i.e. something like zakim, name LarryE - and it will pick a random one and assign it) 16:12:07 [Zakim] I don't understand 'tell Ralph he should have a faster way to identify the ??P.. folks (i.e. something like zakim, name LarryE - and it will pick a random one and assign it)', 16:12:08 [Zakim] ... jhendler. Try /msg Zakim help 16:12:10 [DanCon] Zakim, ??p31 is Rudiger 16:12:12 [Zakim] +Rudiger; got it 16:12:16 [DanCon] Zakim, who's on the phone? 16:12:17 [Zakim] On the phone I see John_Stanton, Libby, FrankvH, ??P15, Marwan_Sabbouh (muted), TimF, IanH, OraL, Guus, M_Smith, JeffH, EvanW, PeterPS, DebM, DanC, LarryE, Pat_Hayes, ??P13, 16:12:20 [Zakim] ... Jim_Hendler, Rudiger 16:12:25 [DanCon] oh well. 16:12:29 [dlm] list above is attendance 16:12:33 [Zakim]
- +44.117.311.aacc 16:12:33 [Zakim] +??P1 16:12:41 [Raphael] Raphael has joined #webont 16:12:59 [jhendler] zakim, ??p1 is steve buswell 16:13:00 [Zakim] I don't understand '??p1 is steve buswell', jhendler. Try /msg Zakim help 16:13:16 [jhendler] zakim, ??p1 is buswell 16:13:17 [Zakim] +Buswell; got it 16:13:41 [dlm] meeting record accepted posted at http://www.w3.org/2002/08/15-webont-irc 16:14:02 [DanCon] Zakim, who's talking? 16:14:12 [Zakim] DanCon, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +44.117.311.aacc (25%), ??P13 (84%), EvanW (4%), Jim_Hendler (10%), DanC (4%) 16:14:33 [dlm] no agenda amendments 16:14:46 [Zakim] +Lynn_Stein 16:14:48 [DanCon] Zakim, pick a scribe 16:14:49 [Zakim] Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Buswell 16:14:52 [DanCon] Zakim, pick a scribe 16:14:55 [Zakim] Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Libby 16:15:03 [DanCon] Zakim, pick a scribe 16:15:04 [Zakim] Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose TimF 16:15:13 [dlm] scribe next week? buswell nominated, not on irc, miller nominated, finin nominated 16:15:23 [dlm] finin accepts 16:15:44 [las] las has joined #webont 16:15:54 [las] zakim, who is here? 16:15:55 [Zakim] On the phone I see John_Stanton, Libby, FrankvH, ??P15, Marwan_Sabbouh (muted), TimF, IanH, OraL, Guus, M_Smith, JeffH, EvanW, PeterPS, DebM, DanC, LarryE, Pat_Hayes, ??P13, 16:15:57 [Zakim] ... Jim_Hendler, Rudiger, +44.117.311.aacc, Buswell, Lynn_Stein 16:15:58 [Zakim] On IRC I see las, Raphael, timfinin, dlm, frankh, jhendler, DanCon, pfps, schreiber, libby, Zakim, RRSAgent, logger_1 16:16:00 [dlm] ftf schedule - hotel info forwarded from guus, mcguinness included weblink, people requested to make their own hotel reservations 16:16:37 [dlm] schreiber posted both f2f5 and f2f6 locations (not just f2f5) 16:16:38 [DanCon] deb's msg about ftf4 hotels http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Aug/0155.html 16:17:13 [dlm] chairs were to decide f2f5 location 16:17:18 [dlm] 3 points: 16:17:26 [dlm] 1 - even distribution between europe and us 16:17:40 [dlm] 2 colocation with plenary in march in boston is desirable 16🔞00 [dlm] 3 many things may be needed to get things inplace for discussion 16🔞36 [dlm] two meetings in a row in england 16:19:01 [dlm] are now proposed 16:19:17 [Zakim] +??P3 16:19:51 [dlm] stein points to center of mass for participants and suggests that the split between europe and us evenly does not meet the center of mass 16:20:20 [dlm] eastern us is closer to center of mass for participants 16:21:00 [dlm] maintaining 3 in us and 3 in europe seems an arbitrary decision 16:22:09 [dlm] manchester has an access grid room 16:22:47 [dlm] one choice point is 2 meetings in england now or two meetings in the us in 2003 16:24:18 [dlm] decision wasabout f2f 5 16:24:41 [dlm] flipped a coin and picked manchester 16:24:55 [dlm] can appeal the decision out of the telecon 16:25:01 [dlm] pat action done 16:25:20 [dlm] eshelman continued 16:25:40 [dlm] eshelman asks for part-whole examples to be sent to him, schreiber asks for sending to group as well 16:25:44 [dlm] raphael done 16:25:48 [dlm] hendler continued 16:25:57 [dlm] dan c done on f2f record 16:26:01 [dlm] carroll continued 16:26:11 [dlm] chairs forwarding hotel done 16:26:18 [dlm] chairs determine f2f5 done 16:26:21 [DanCon] ftf record now has model theory summary http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/ftf3.html Revision:1.34Revision: 1.34 Revision:1.34 of $Date: 2002/08/22 13:59:26 $ 16:26:28 [dlm] schreiber wine example continued 16:26:35 [dlm] dlm continued closed world 16:26:43 [dlm] guus will take 2 weeks for uml doc 16:26:53 [dlm] hendler inform semantic web group done 16:27:05 [dlm] chairs process for rdf/owl comparison doc continued 16:27:19 [dlm] hendler's aboved discussed in cg 16:27:25 [dlm] item 3 16:27:35 [dlm] input: http://www.coginst.uwf.edu/users/phayes/RDFS2OWL-C.html 16:27:50 [dlm] references also to pfps's and dan's in email 16:28:03 [dlm] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Jun/att-0082/01-semantics.html
16:28:04 [dlm] Dan's MT 16:28:04 [dlm] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Jun/0208.html 16:28:08 [DanCon] Zakim, is pat here? 16:28:10 [Zakim] probably, DanCon; Pat_Hayes arrived 22 minutes ago 16:29:23 [dlm] pat - pfps's model theory for abstract syntax 16:29:33 [dlm] rendering of abstract syntax into rdf 16:30:01 [dlm] as input 16:30:13 [dlm] did a transliteration of semantic conditions from pfps's model theory 16:30:23 [dlm] and stated as structural interpretation 16:30:41 [dlm] showed one could construct and rdf interpretation that was a structural interpretation 16:31:21 [dlm] construction of rdf interpretation for owl has 2 stages 16:31:25 [dlm] pfps model theory 16:31:40 [dlm] move the interpretation over to rdf 16:31:46 [dlm] assigns interpretations to subgraphs 16:31:53 [dlm] that may not be an rdfs interpretation 16:31:59 [dlm] need to assign truth values 16:32:19 [dlm] could be uniformly extended to an rdfs interpretation that comes out with the same truth values 16:32:31 [dlm] there is an rdfs interpretation that satisfies the owl model theory 16:32:39 [dlm] there is a "devious trick" 16:32:51 [dlm] extension mapping refers to the notion of validity of the first kind of model 16:33:08 [dlm] for more details refer to pats document 16:34:44 [dlm] questions - pfps - claims pats claims are false 16:35:07 [dlm] pfps has examples of entailments valid in one and not the other 16:35:26 [DanCon] Peter's point seems well made, to me. 16:36:15 [dlm] horrocks - can have an example of one thing in domain of discourse in owl and claim not true in pat's 16:37:16 [dlm] hayes - semantics for rdfs graphs and follows rdfs rules 16:37:25 [dlm] classes can exist that are not owl:class 16:38:13 [dlm] all things in IR will be larger than in one for OWL, but this is irrelevent 16:38:36 [dlm] hayes not not reproduce all aspects of pfps's model theory 16:39:14 [dlm] clarification - hendler - key differences between hayes and dan's view 16:39:22 [DanCon] Zakim, who's talking? 16:39:33 [Zakim] DanCon, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +44.117.311.aacc (28%), ??P13 (9%), Pat_Hayes (89%) 16:39:38 [dlm] should be dan/jeremy view 16:40:11 [Zakim]
- +44.117.311.aacc 16:40:38 [dlm] dan/jeremy propose a strategy that is too limiting and hayes claims that his does not require the strong limitations 16:41:25 [dlm] hayes claims a version of pfps's model theory that is compatible with rdfs - not capturing the semantic structures but hayes claims the truth 16:41:53 [dlm] horrocks - points out a bug 16:42:14 [DanCon] ooh... interesting... negation w.r.t. owl:Thing. hmm... 16:42:15 [dlm] hayes says subclass of owl entities not rdfs entities 16:43:01 [dlm] horrocks - the task hayes has may be too hard to do in a short time period 16:43:49 [dlm] smith - what is the advantage of taking a straight forward and readable model theory and writing it in this form 16:43:57 [dlm] hayes - clarifies relationship to rdfs 16:44:18 [dlm] smith - how do people think of this language? 16:44:55 [dlm] 3 languages? 16:45:06 [dlm] hard to keep the prefixes right - smith 16:45:20 [dlm] hayes - consider the rdfs family 16:46:11 [dlm] van harmelen - what is the fate of the pfps proposed counter examples? 16:46:37 [dlm] pfps claims the problem is hayes does not have enough classes 16:46:58 [dlm] does the intersection of student and class exist? asks connolly 16:47:03 [dlm] hayes - yes 16:47:19 [dlm] pfps - the list, the sequence but not the intersection 16:47:31 [dlm] does it exist for pfps's version? 16:47:42 [dlm] the problem does not arise for pfps's version 16:48:36 [dlm] hayes -this may be the answer for hayes too 16:48:55 [dlm] hayes has an action item to go back and look at pfps's first example again 16:49:28 [dlm] horrocks - what about sequences (e.g., intersection of a b a ) 16:49:47 [dlm] hayes - can not have loops but he means to allow repetition 16:50:00 [dlm] this is just a bug; should allow for duplication 16:50:40 [dlm] horrocks - what is the interpretation of thing? 16:50:51 [dlm] hayes - owl:thing 16:51:18 [dlm] what is the interpretation of A or not A 16:51:24 [dlm] hayes - true 16:51:25 [Zakim] -Buswell 16:51:50 [dlm] action - more thought is required because of the complementation issue 16:53:24 [dlm] what is the minimum interpretation? 16:53:52 [dlm] a number of questions are arising on what is the interpretation of proposed classes such as the union of B and its complement? 16:54:32 [dlm] horrocks - we dont know how to do great horned owl 16:54:51 [dlm] hayes - lets not focus on great horned owl 16:55:51 [dlm] connolly suggests that this is the same problem he found in his model theory and he never found a fix 16:57:48 [dlm] if classes are in domain of discourse, then problems occur with cardinality of domain 16:57:58 [dlm] domains have minimum size 16:58:14 [dlm] rdfs has minimum size 16:58:36 [dlm] great horned owl domain is infinite 17:00:19 [dlm] horrocks points out that everything that follows in owl does not follow in great horned owl 17:02:08 [dlm] horrocks claims there is no inbetween world that conforms to owl 17:02:54 [dlm] i.e, the entailments are not the same as those in pfps' model theory 17:04:25 [dlm] the point is reraised that this task that hayes has may be too hard to be solved in a reasonable time for this working group 17:05:13 [dlm] dark triples handles the problem in another way but in a way that "ignores rdf" 17:05:45 [dlm] van harmelen - we have now clarified the bind but we do not have a resolution 17:05:59 [dlm] horrocks - pfps' proposal is a solution 17:06:10 [dlm] van harmelen - but it does not show a relationship between owl and rdfs 17:06:25 [dlm] smith - we need to have a statement of the relationship (possibly leaving out features) 17:07:25 [dlm] hendler - do we really have a proposal that is fully worked out (other than a solution where everything is dark)? 17:08:01 [Zakim] +LynnT 17:08:24 [dlm] will someone take an action to write such a proposal? 17:09:43 [dlm] pfps - the charter of the working group could be satisfied without this by using the syntax of rdfs but not the semantics 17:14:10 [dlm] Possible ACTION - Hayes will do a revision by Monday that addresses major points raised 17:14:20 [dlm] horrocks questions if this makes sense 17:16:48 [dlm] possible action above is real action 17:17:14 [jhendler] ACTION: Hayes will do a revision of his MT document that addresses major points raised 17:20:30 [frankh] q+ 17:20:48 [schreiber] ack frankh 17:21:01 [frankh] q- 17:21:03 [dlm] frank - tradeoff between speed of progress vs. quality of main result 17:22:11 [dlm] the hope would be that pat would be successful yielding a more acceptable group mt 17:23:20 [dlm] horrocks would like a time limit set on the MT proposal 17:24:05 [dlm] other proposals could be refined in the time period 17:24:25 [dlm] request for messages clarifying issues dependent upon this 17:24:55 [dlm] suggestion - in 2 weeks take stock again of the mt situation 17:26:38 [dlm] class problem - there are too many for pfps mt and too few for what hayes wants 17:26:54 [dlm] agreed - 2 week discussion period on MT 17:28:50 [DanCon] maybe peter could type it? 17:29:04 [dlm] ACTION - pfps will do a revision of his MT that clarifies the relationship between his MT and rdfs 17:29:23 [dlm] and peter will attempt to make this relationship non trivial 17:29:55 [Zakim] -Libby 17:29:56 [Zakim] -Marwan_Sabbouh 17:29:57 [Zakim] -M_Smith 17:29:58 [Zakim] -??P3 17:29:59 [Zakim] -Guus 17:29:59 [Zakim] -LynnT 17:30:00 [Zakim] -FrankvH 17:30:00 [Zakim] -OraL 17:30:02 [Zakim] -John_Stanton 17:30:03 [Zakim] -TimF 17:30:04 [Zakim] -??P13 17:30:07 [Zakim] -??P15 17:30:10 [Zakim] -Lynn_Stein 17:30:12 [Zakim] -Pat_Hayes 17:30:13 [Zakim] -JeffH 17:30:15 [DanCon] evidently not 17:30:17 [Zakim] -Rudiger 17:30:18 [Zakim] -EvanW 17:30:19 [libby] ;) 17:30:20 [jhendler] irc or phone? 17:30:30 [Zakim] -PeterPS 17:30:34 [DanCon] I was hoping to follow up on the question PatH asked 17:30:44 [schreiber] dan, we did not discuss the role of your MT. Can you adjust also? 17:30:52 [Zakim] -Jim_Hendler 17:31:11 [DanCon] adjust: well, I could pretty it up with examples, but no, I don't know how to address the substantive objections 17:31:39 [dlm] does anyone know where the url for this record is? 17:31:42 [Zakim] -LarryE 17:31:44 [Zakim] -IanH 17:31:46 [DanCon] RRSAgent, pointer? 17:31:46 [RRSAgent] See http://www.w3.org/2002/08/22-webont-irc#T17-31-46 17:31:53 [Zakim] -DebM 17:31:59 [DanCon] hang on while I fix the access control info, deb 17:32:02 [dlm] ok 17:32:32 [timfinin] today's discussion gave me a headache and made me think of this quote, which I am fond of, ""Confusionists and superficial intellectuals move ahead while the 'deep 17:32:32 [timfinin] thinkers' descend into the darker regions of the status quo or, to express it 17:32:32 [timfinin] in a different way, they remain stuck in the mud." -- Paul Feyerabend (1988)
-- Deborah L. McGuinness Knowledge Systems Laboratory Gates Computer Science Building, 2A Room 241 Stanford University, Stanford, CA 94305-9020 email: dlm@ksl.stanford.edu URL: http://ksl.stanford.edu/people/dlm/index.html (voice) 650 723 9770 (stanford fax) 650 725 5850 (computer fax) 801 705 0941
Received on Thursday, 22 August 2002 17:46:10 UTC