Comcast Sues Maryland WISP for Bandwidth Theft - Man uses 35 residential accounts to fuel wireless business... (original) (raw)

Combat Chuck_Too Many Cannibals_Premium Memberjoin:2001-11-29Verona, PA1 edit So let me get this straight......his defense is "well yeah I did it, but everyone else is doing it!"Good luck with that.
2009-Mar-30 10:28 am: · hey mods ·

ctggzgPremium Memberjoin:2005-02-11USA ctggzg Premium Member 2009-Mar-30 10:31 am Re: So let me get this straight...I doubt he can name any "Internet cafe" that's doing this without Comcast's knowledge and getting away with it.
2009-Mar-30 10:31 am: · hey mods ·

en102_Canadian, eh?_join:2001-01-26Valencia, CA en102 Member 2009-Mar-30 1:19 pm Re: So let me get this straight...I suspect that those "Internet Cafe's" do not purchase residential service, and most likely business DSL or Cable.Residential service typically states that the service is not for reselling or redistribution
2009-Mar-30 1:19 pm: · hey mods ·

patcat88join:2002-04-05Jamaica, NY Re: So let me get this straight...said by en102:I suspect that those "Internet Cafe's" do not purchase residential service, and most likely business DSL or Cable.Residential service typically states that the service is not for reselling or redistributionEven "Business" cable and DSL don't permit resale. You need carrier/enterprise grade connections, like T1s (which are invariably DSL today) if you want a TOS that allowed resale.
2009-Mar-31 4:53 am: · hey mods ·

Anonymous__Anonymous_Premium Memberjoin:2004-06-21127.0.0.1 _to Combat Chuck_said by Combat Chuck:...his defense is "well yeah I did it, but everyone else is doing it!"Good luck with that. but it's not like he was using stolen modems or something'i bet comcast will lose this one due to the guy was paying his bill every month there for he was paying and not stealing
2009-Mar-30 10:34 am: · hey mods ·

GemSnakePremium Memberjoin:2000-10-193rd layer GemSnake Premium Member 2009-Mar-30 10:54 am Re: So let me get this straight...It's all in the ToS
2009-Mar-30 10:54 am: · hey mods ·

Combat Chuck_Too Many Cannibals_Premium Memberjoin:2001-11-29Verona, PA _to Anonymous__It's a civil case, they are suing for damages. If you knowingly share your service with your neighbors they can do the same to you. They won't because it looks bad to sue an individual and it wouldn't be worth the money.
2009-Mar-30 10:55 am: · hey mods ·

| | _to Anonymous__No one said he was stealing - he is reselling a service that he does not have the right to resell. Much like how it's illegal to rebroadcast sporting events without the "expressed written consent of the [insert league name here]", or by purchasing a CD legally but then copying it and selling it. | | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | 2009-Mar-30 4:44 pm: · hey mods · |

| | Re: So let me get this straight...said by hootabius:No one said he was stealing - he is reselling a service that he does not have the right to resell. Much like how it's illegal to rebroadcast sporting events without the "expressed written consent of the [insert league name here]", or by purchasing a CD legally but then copying it and selling it.Yep. This bozo owes Comcast some serious cash. He better start kissing Comcast's rearend for a better deal. Bet his customers will be suing him in small claims court next since their service has been dumped.Comcast would be smart to get his customer list and offer them some deals. | | ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | 2009-Mar-31 1:51 am: · hey mods · |

funchordsHello _MVM_join:2001-03-11Yarmouth Port, MA _to Combat Chuck_said by Combat Chuck:...his defense is "well yeah I did it, but everyone else is doing it!"Comcast, itself, used that defense for Sandvine RSTs in their FCC interference case last year.
2009-Mar-30 11:53 am: · hey mods ·

| | Re: Eyes on your Own Paper!!I forgot entirely about that specific. Good find. | | ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | 2009-Mar-30 12:23 pm: · hey mods · |

Combat Chuck_Too Many Cannibals_Premium Memberjoin:2001-11-29Verona, PA _to funchords_said by funchords:Comcast, itself, used that defense for Sandvine RSTs in their FCC interference case last year.And that has to do with this case how?
2009-Mar-30 5:37 pm: · hey mods ·

packetscanPremium Memberjoin:2004-10-19Bridgeport, CT Re: Eyes on your Own Paper!!He is referring to the sandvine case that comcast said " everyone else is doing it" - in regards to illicit traffic shaping.So the double standard needs to stop.However, I think it's common sense that you can't resell your residential Internet access based on your TOS and AUP.Secondly it's not theft. It's a contract violation and the only thing that should happen, all the modems should be bricked. He was paying for these accounts remember that.

Combat Chuck_Too Many Cannibals_Premium Memberjoin:2001-11-29Verona, PA1 edit Re: Eyes on your Own Paper!!said by packetscan:He is referring to the sandvine case that comcast said " everyone else is doing it" - in regards to illicit traffic shaping.So the double standard needs to stop.I know to what he refers and yes I agree that it is amusing but again:What does that have to do with this case here?The answer is it doesn't have anything to do with this case.

jester121Premium Memberjoin:2003-08-09Lake Zurich, IL1 edit _to funchords_As in a legal "case"? No, that was an administrative function and as everyone noticed didn't mean much of anything to anyone except BBR.
2009-Mar-30 7:20 pm: · hey mods ·

pnh102_Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty_Premium Memberjoin:2002-05-02Mount Airy, MD pnh102 Premium Member 2009-Mar-30 10:33 am Coffee ShopsI am guessing that for any retail establishment to do this, they would need to sign up with some sort of business ISP account that would allow for such a thing?
2009-Mar-30 10:33 am: · hey mods ·

PolarBear03_The bear formerly known as aaron8301_Premium Memberjoin:2005-01-03 Re: Coffee ShopsYes, as far as I know. They'd need business class service, and probably have to pay extra for the option of making it available to others.Starbucks doesn't just get a $40 residential account and hook it up to a wireless router (as this asshat is claiming; "he said Comcast signals are often used to power wireless networks at places like Internet cafes and other businesses that charge users for access"). They probably pay a couple benjamins for it.
2009-Mar-30 11:36 am: · hey mods ·

| | Re: Coffee ShopsThat is correct. I believe Starbucks used to use AT&T DSL lines for theirs. | | ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | 2009-Mar-30 12:23 pm: · hey mods · |

| | Re: Coffee ShopsI doubt Starbucks uses DSL lines. They most likely use a T1 provided by ATT. Especially in many areas where ATT Wifi is offered DSL does not exist. | | --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | 2009-Mar-30 1:07 pm: · hey mods · |

fiberguy2_My views are my own._Premium Memberjoin:2005-05-20 Re: Coffee Shopssaid by hottboiinnc4:I doubt Starbucks uses DSL lines. They most likely use a T1 provided by ATT. Especially in many areas where ATT Wifi is offered DSL does not exist.I can personally verify that many of the Starbucks in my area are simply using a DSL service for their WiFi.
2009-Mar-30 1:45 pm: · hey mods ·

| | Re: Coffee Shopsagain areas may differ depending on whats available. Try running DSL out in the middle the country where you're lucky if you get 14.5 on dial-up. You're not going to see DSL there. Especially the the only address within several miles. | | --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | 2009-Mar-30 1:51 pm: · hey mods · |

brandon_Some truth included in this post._Premium Memberjoin:2003-03-31Ocean Springs, MS brandon Premium Member 2009-Mar-30 2:16 pm Re: Coffee Shopssaid by hottboiinnc4:again areas may differ depending on whats available. Try running DSL out in the middle the country where you're lucky if you get 14.5 on dial-up. You're not going to see DSL there. Especially the the only address within several miles.And what would a Starbucks be doing there?No "Starbucks on every corner" jokes.
2009-Mar-30 2:16 pm: · hey mods ·

| | Re: Coffee Shopsit's called a travel plaza. off the Ohio Turnpike. | | --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | 2009-Mar-30 2:17 pm: · hey mods · |

Greg_ZPremium Memberjoin:2001-08-08Springfield, IL Greg_Z Premium Member 2009-Apr-6 8:51 am Re: Coffee ShopsAnd I bet that there is a town nearby that ATT services, so in turn would service the plaza.

fiberguy2_My views are my own._Premium Memberjoin:2005-05-20 _to hottboiinnc4_You're simply making the obvious point.. but I do believe it was said that they ALL used T1, or am I wrong? My point was that the information was incorrect.Literal terms are not good to use when making posts..Things like "no one likes that.." or "everyone's going to be.. " are just not accurate and bad to use when making points.
2009-Mar-30 2:23 pm: · hey mods ·

jjoshuaPremium Memberjoin:2001-06-01Scotch Plains, NJ jjoshua Premium Member 2009-Mar-30 10:37 am Stealing? Give me a break.If the WISP is paying for the service then they are not stealing. Are they using their allotted bandwidth? Yes? So what.If they are reselling service against Comcast's TOS then they should be disconnected. End of story.
2009-Mar-30 10:37 am: · hey mods ·

KoolMoe_Aw Man_Premium Memberjoin:2001-02-14Annapolis, MD KoolMoe Premium Member 2009-Mar-30 11:00 am Re: Stealing? Give me a break.If reselling is prohibited by their TOS, then why is 'disconnection' as far as it should go? Why shouldn't Comcast be compensated?If reselling was not specifically against the TOS of the accounts this fellow signed-up for then, sorry Comcast - big oversight. Adjust the TOS, allow him to bail on a revised contract, and lesson learned.This guy knew he was pushing it. He got caught. His only hope is reselling was not explicitly prohibited. If it was, he's rightfully screwed.KM
2009-Mar-30 11:00 am: · hey mods ·

axusjoin:2001-06-18Washington, DC axus Member 2009-Mar-30 4:41 pm Re: Stealing? Give me a break.I don't think a ToS violation makes you liable for damages. Comcast can just end the contract and cut him off. Calling it stealing when he was paying full fare is ridiculous. How was Comcast damaged, exactly?
2009-Mar-30 4:41 pm: · hey mods ·

| | _to KoolMoe_TOS = Terms Of ServiceAbide by the following rules and receive service, comcast is not liable for content... bla bla bla.Yep... normally disconnecting would be appropriate route. | | --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | 2009-Mar-30 6:54 pm: · hey mods · |

fiberguy2_My views are my own._Premium Memberjoin:2005-05-20 _to jjoshua_I suppose the same should be said for when it happens with Video services too? .. a simple disconnection? .. ignore the contract and the rules?This argument is tiring to hear as a defense. We are a nation of rules and if you don't like them, then you have the right to fight to change them. To simply do as you please, snub your nose, and think you'll just get away with it and a simple slap, such as a disconnect, is a dangerous world you are wanting.This is MOSTLY going to be a civil matter.. It would be a little different if the guy had residential services elsewhere, hooked up a business class line at buildings, MOVED his residential modems to the service points and sold service, well, then it would be criminal, most likely, as that would also be theft of service.Comcast is going to win the case, hands down.
2009-Mar-30 1:50 pm: · hey mods ·

jjoshuaPremium Memberjoin:2001-06-01Scotch Plains, NJ jjoshua Premium Member 2009-Mar-30 3:28 pm Re: Stealing? Give me a break.In the case of video, the guy would be redistributing which is a criminal issue. The law is clear in this case.Internet is another matter.
2009-Mar-30 3:28 pm: · hey mods ·


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Achtzehnjoin:2002-04-14Los Angeles, CA shameIt's a shame;This guy is just trying to give a service that Comcast obviously is not offering in the area, and now he's going to get slammed for it and the customers are going to lose their wireless.The people lose, a crappy ISP gets richer.
2009-Mar-30 10:37 am: · hey mods ·


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K PattersonPremium Memberjoin:2006-03-12Columbus, OH What did Comcast know, and when?I am not an attorney, but:There is a concept called laches. If you have a right and don't take prompt steps to enforce it, you may be barred at a later date from doing so.When did Comcast learn he was doing this? Where did he find space to locate these modems at the condos/apartments that wouldn't raise eyebrows at Comcast?He's guilty as hell if these are truly residential accounts, but he might get away with it. He certainly is not going to be allowed to continue the accounts at residential pricing.
2009-Mar-30 10:43 am: · hey mods ·


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boogi manjoin:2001-11-13Jacksonville, FL hmmmmm smell a rat?wonder if he had residential accounts or if he paid for business accounts. in either case the worst thing i can think of is to disconnect for TOS violation. not $60k x 35 thats a bit outlandish. also what do you want to bet they go in to those places right after him and try the same or similar. also did they already have a service agreement with those MDU's? if so then i would think that would be an issue between the property owners/managers and comcast not this guy
2009-Mar-30 10:47 am: · hey mods ·


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1 recommendation he should read his TOSno ISP allows you to resell your bandwidth unless you are on a wholesale account (and no this is not a business account it is an enterprise level account).It is not just about the bandwidth. There are also federal fees and regulations that Comcast must abide by. You can't have just every guy on the corner offering Internet access. These things are highly regulated (think about Child porn and violations of the patriot act on unregulated networks).
2009-Mar-30 10:56 am: · hey mods ·


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Hangmn_Don't Fight It...It's Inevitable_Premium Memberjoin:2000-04-08Philadelphia, PA1 recommendation Hangmn Premium Member 2009-Mar-30 10:56 am But Uhhh...Comcast DOES have a sevice for MDUs. This is a violation of TOS plain and simple. Reselling bandwidth is Against the TOS as CLEARLY stated on the TOS website:»business.comcast.com/ter ··· dex.aspxRead and learn
2009-Mar-30 10:56 am: · hey mods ·


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AVD_Respice, Adspice, Prospice_Premium Memberjoin:2003-02-06Onion, NJ AVD Premium Member 2009-Mar-30 11:52 am AUP TOSDoes violating the TOS or AUP open you up to civil penalties?
2009-Mar-30 11:52 am: · hey mods ·


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gar187er_I DID this for a living_join:2006-06-24Seattle, WA1 recommendation red doti wish that stupid red dot on watchtower would go away....been staring at it for about 2 weeks now....thanks clark...
2009-Mar-30 12:04 pm: · hey mods ·

| | Comcast Also at FaultComcast is also at fault with this. If you call Comcast Business services they tell you that you CAN RESELL Business Class Services. One rep even says that "it depends on how you interpret the AUP/TOS".Sounds like Comcast needs to train their reps better because nobody knows anything. | | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | 2009-Mar-30 1:48 pm: · hey mods · |


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JJVPremium Memberjoin:2001-04-25Seattle, WA JJV Premium Member 2009-Mar-30 4:23 pm Cap?I wonder how he managed this with out hitting Comcasts bandwidth cap?It seems like he would get all sorts of mpaa and riaa warnings too.
2009-Mar-30 4:23 pm: · hey mods ·

| | resale yesMaybe not the way he's doing it but for instance look at airimba wireless. They buy static ip's put modem to bridge ip's in there equipment and push it out through there wireless in turn reselling it. From what I understand since they are using there own equipment its legal at least through Embarq, which clause may be diff. than stingycapcom. | | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | 2009-Mar-30 5:56 pm: · hey mods · |

| | CanuckIT Anon 2009-Mar-30 8:59 pm OceanNet busted what I would like to know is how he bound the pipes together Kodus to creativity. I guess his lights are out now. | | --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | 2009-Mar-30 8:59 pm: · hey mods · |


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| | flyer22 Anon 2009-Mar-31 4:41 pm I have done this.I wired a 37 unit condo with phoneline networking using a business class DSL. I didn't scrutinize the TOS, but I did ask the customer service and they said no problem.One way he could get around this is to do the install and maintenance, and have the building pay for the bandwidth. They would then provide it as an amenity. They would no more be selling bandwidth, than they would be selling electricity or gardening services, or any other common use amenity. Another way of looking at it is to forget that it is residential and imagine the building is an office or a hotel. Clearly that would not be illegal to provide internet services to tenants or guests.He would need a business class service though. | | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | 2009-Mar-31 4:41 pm: · hey mods · |

| | LOl look at his websiteThis guy is boned he is doing this all over the country if the locations he claims are correct and involving the owners in it so in all have a feeling he is boned big time | | ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |

| | There probably is no actual contract.He could probably argue that what he is selling is access to the WiFi not the internet access itself.Also it is unlikely he signed or even acknowledged the TOS. This is not the same as rebroadcasting the radio or tv or cable tv since that involves copyright violations. Comcast usually does not require contracts for residential or business cable internet service so I doubt there is actually a signed contract.Comcast should just cut him off if he bought residential or non-resellable service. | | ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | 2009-Apr-2 12:51 pm: · hey mods · |

utp216Premium Memberjoin:2001-12-26Red Lion, PA utp216 Premium Member 2009-Apr-4 7:14 pm So this is the guy..I remember being down Ocean City and looking for a wifi signal. He had tons of theses routers with the good old standard "linksys" as there SSID. So I clicked on one of them because it wasn't secure and low and behold.. His walled garden asking for membership information. I'm glad he got busted! I resorted to tethering my phone anyway. I was just looking for something a little more simple at the time.