Josh Neufeld and Sari Wilson — Poisonous Bugs, Crazy Farmers and the True Meaning of Enlightenment (vol VIII/iss 2/February
Josh Neufeld and Sari Wilson
by Rebecca Salek
Xeric Award winner and life-long traveler Josh Neufeld recently put his talent for sequential art to use: a graphic travelogue of the journey he and wife Sari Wilson took through Southeast Asia and Central Europe. Josh and Sari both took a "few perfect minutes" to answers questions for Sequential Tart about A Few Perfect Hours. If you run into them at APE or SPX, be sure to say hi!
Sequential Tart: Congratulations on the Xeric Award! :) How did you react when you found out that you had won?
Josh Neufeld: Thank you very much! I was pretty much your typical neurotic cartoonist when it came to the award. In fact, even after I got the written confirmation that I had won, I wasn't really sure about it until I called the Xeric Foundation and heard it from their lips.
Regardless of whether or not I got the Xeric, I was determined to publish A Few Perfect Hours (in fact, my regular publisher, Jeff Mason of Alternative Comics, had agreed to put it out for me), but winning the Xeric enabled me to control all aspects of its publication. And not having to pay for the printing lets me actually earn a couple of dollars, which is a nice change from the normal alt-comix routine.
ST: Why did you decide to relate your experiences abroad as a comic instead of ... oh ... a regular prose travelogue?
JN: The simplest answer is: I'm a storyteller and my medium is comics. For me, it only makes sense to relate my stories in comic book form. My goal as a cartoonist is to explore unconventional themes and subjects, and at the point I started working on these stories, there was very little comics work being done on travel — other than Peter Kuper's Comics Trips, which was a huge influence on me. So given the dearth of travel comics, I felt compelled to explore that "genre" and tell those stories.
ST: Why did you and Sari decide to backpack through Thailand and other parts of Southeast Asia? Me, I'd've picked Ireland. ;)
JN: When we set out, we bought one-way tickets to Hong Kong with the idea that maybe we'd get work teaching English somewhere in Asia. Possibilities included Taiwan, Korea, and Japan. We wanted to have an incredible travel experience and we wanted to find a way to extend our meager resources as far as they could go. So teaching English seemed a sure bet.
The insane pace and pollution of Hong Kong was a bit intense for us, however, so we quickly moved on to Thailand, which was a cheap plane flight away. We spent two months in Thailand, having all sorts of experiences, both positive and negative, and during that time we realized we didn't really have the "intestinal fortitude" to set up camp in Asia for the long-haul. Until you've actually been to a part of the world (like Southeast Asia) where you stick out (physically) as strongly as we did, it's impossible to imagine how weird and uncomfortable it is. After a while, you become exhausted with always being the center of attention no matter where you go.
So we decided to just stretch our finances as far as we could in that region (meaning no more plane flights, as those really eat up your resources quickly) and travel down the peninsula to Malaysia and then Singapore. Later, we did splurge for a short plane trip to Indonesia, and then we continued training, busing, and boating it around Indonesia.
To get back to your question, traveling is very important to me, and I've been fortunate enough to visit lots of places around the world. At that point, I had already visited almost all the 48 continental states and much of Canada; had been to Mexico numerous times; had lived in England for a while, and had traveled by train through much of Western Europe. Southeast Asia was a region completely new to me, and it was one of the most affordable destinations left!
ST: Poor Sari. Any advice for other travelers on how to deal with air sickness and obnoxious fellow passengers?
Sari Wilson: For air sickness: Don't eat packaged cod fish chips right before a Sri Lankan airlines flight. As for the too-friendly Aussies, well, they might not seem so bad without the cod fish chips.
But, you know, as an aside, it's a funny thing. I don't remember being as sick as Josh drew me in that first story. This goes to the slippery nature of memory. Perhaps we choose not to recall the least flattering versions of ourselves? In my version of the traveler's illness story, we are staying in a riverside hut in a tiny northern Thai town (Pai) and Josh can't get out of bed. I show myself running to and from the local clinic trying to figure out what is wrong with him. I show my fear and desperation as the local doctor looks up from his English language dictionary and pronounces "typhus." I show me looking up that term in our little dictionary and finding out that is some desperate and end-of-the-road rare condition, while I mop Josh's beaded brow .... (Yes, this really happened — right, Josh?)
ST: As Americans, how were you treated, in general? Did your experiences vary depending on where you were?
JN: I had certain expectations about how we'd be treated as Americans, much of them because of Sari's stories of her previous solo trips to the Middle East, where she'd gotten very strong reactions, as you can imagine. Some people had even told us to put Canadian flags on our backpacks! But that seemed silly to me. If I was going to be treated as the Ugly American, I was determined to change people's minds about that. The funny thing was that for the most part our being American meant nothing at all the people of Southeast Asia. At that point at least — and remember this was all before 9/11 — Thais, Malaysians, Singaporeans, and Indonesians didn't have much knowledge about or experience with Americans. If we had gone to Vietnam, that would have of course been very different, but we never did get to travel there. As I mentioned before, just being non-Asian made us virtual celebrities, especially when we were in smaller towns and rural areas.
ST: What do you think of the integration of religion with everyday life in Thailand? How does that differ from your experiences in the States?
JN: I hate to generalize too much, but I was very interested in the way the Thai and Balinese people worked their religion into their daily life. As I discuss in A Few Perfect Hours and both "Tribal Ritual" stories, I was surprised about how integrated those aspects were for most people. Whether it was the constant presence of Buddhist monks in Thailand, or the altars and offerings you saw everywhere in Bali, it seemed to flow naturally into life, almost seemed as if there was no barrier between the secular and the spiritual. For instance, I was very surprised to discover that many Thai men spend some period of their lives as monks, and then they return to their other occupations, whether it be taxi drivers, teachers, or whatever.
I didn't grow up in a religious home, but my experience with religion in the States had been very different. Again, these are my perceptions, but it always seemed like most people in the States kept very strict divisions between their religion and "normal life." One would go to church and all of a sudden there were a whole different set of rules and expectations. Or in my case, we would occasionally celebrate the Jewish high holy days, Passover and the like, but the rituals seemed very empty to me, devoid of context or something for me to relate to in my normal life. I discuss this in detail in the book's last story, "Cremations, Cubicles, and Cant."
ST: What is your opinion of missionaries such as Tom and Sharon Dwyer? Do you admire them for their determination? Or worry about their impact on native culture?
JN: I find a certain arrogance in the missionaries' idea that their religion, their culture, is better than the people's they are proselytizing to. By staying with the missionaries I got to see the world the way they saw it, but in the end my feelings about their work were basically confirmed. When I thought about the sacrifices the "Dwyers" (names changed) made, I admired their dedication to the cause, but I was astonished by the wrong-headedness of it. Re-reading "On A Mission" reminds me how dismissive the Dwyers were about Buddhism and Thais in general. They saw the Thai people as simple souls, to be saved by Jesus, and that was about it. In other respects, the Dwyers had no real interest in the people or culture around them. They did everything they could to make their home as generic and "American" as possible.
And yes I do worry about the impact their missionary activities have on the culture of the Isan people. On the other hand, theirs is a culture which has survived for thousands of years, so I probably shouldn't be too concerned.
ST: At Wat Phatomkongha, you were presented with "good luck" medallions. Do you still have them? Do you think they actually worked?
JN: I'm sad to say that I don't have my medallion necklace anymore. I was really proud of mine and wore it all the time during our trip, which often caused people to comment on and want to examine it. About a month after we received the necklaces, I was swimming on the Thai island of Ko Samui and the necklace must have gotten washed off my neck without me noticing it. I spent a frantic hour searching desperately in the shallow water and the beach, but I never found it. Fortunately, Sari didn't wear her necklace that much after the first week or so, so she was able to hold onto it all through our trip. The necklace got misplaced for awhile, but recently we were just at Sari's parents' house in upstate New York and Sari found her medallion in our bedroom dresser drawer! It was great to see it again, after all this time, and especially after I spent so much time thinking about it while putting the book together. So in that sense, the medallions definitely brought us good luck. It's a direct link to all the events of the book and is now displayed prominently in our apartment — on our Joe Torre bobbing-head doll!
ST: A question for Sari: given how traumatic and liberating an experience it was, would you ever visit the Cave of Fear again?
SW: No way. Once was enough. Only so much catharsis can one take. Next time I'll get my jollies bungee jumping.
ST: Mr Ong, the Malaysian oraganic farmer, seemed like a pretty determined guy. What do you think his chances are, of both surviving and convincing his neighbors to switch to a more eco-friendly business plan?
JN: I looked Mr. Ong up on the Internet recently and found that he's still at it, promoting organic farming and other progressive social causes (like tenants' rights) in Penang. I even found a report he'd written on the growth of organic farming and it seems like it's really starting to take hold over there. Good for him! On one hand, I can't believe he hasn't burned out, but on the other, I'm not surprised. He had the same kind of stubborn determination and hard-headedness about his cause as the Baptist missionaries in Thailand.
ST: So, tell us about your glorious career as an extra in a Singaporean soap opera? Will you be pursuing that career long-term? ;)
JN: As I show in "How to Star In A Singaporean Soap Opera," while we were staying in a Singaporean youth hostel, we were approached about playing "European" extras for a local soap opera. We spent the day being rushed around on a variety of sets, wearing ridiculous outfits.
Some years ago, in the early days of the Internet, I tried looking up the name of the soap, which I believe was called "Seasons of Love," but I didn't get very far. I would love to see that episode, but at this point, the episode we were on is so old, and I assume they've made so many more of them, that it would be pretty near impossible to find it. I sure would love to see it, though, just to see Sari's priceless phone booth scene with the show's star, and to spot how many times they had me walking by in the background because they liked my blond hair.
ST: Considering how ... uh ... "accurate" the Singaporean soap opera was about the United States, do you think our television shows are just as "accurate"?
JN: As I show in the story, the Singaporean portrayal of New York City was pretty hilarious, what with the "Pacific Bell" payphones, sanitized graffiti — including one tag saying "Alice Copper" [sic], cars with the steering wheel on the right, and so on. I can only hope our American shows do better research. Remember, though, the show we were on was the Singaporean equivalent of General Hospital or All My Children — cheaply and quickly done and not terribly concerned with verisimilitude.
ST: Did you get the chance to actually watch any television while you were overseas? If so, what?
JN: Many of the rooms we stayed in during our travels — especially in Southeast Asia — didn't have electricity, let along television sets. But occasionally we'd run across a TV in a restaurant or something. Usually they'd be playing videos of American movies — with English subtitles to help the locals follow the dialogue — but once in a while they'd have a show on. I only remember random examples, like an episode ofNash Bridges where Don Johnson seemed to spend the whole show whittling. Huh? Or one group of Balinese men who were getting a huge kick out of the Three Stooges. And another Balinese household that was watching a show about learning basic French. Again: huh?
ST: Another question for Sari: I'm very sorry that you had a purple butt for several weeks. ;) Any advice for women planning an overseas trip on how to avoid The Itch and The Burning Sensation as traveling companions?
SW: The vaginal PH balance — base, alkaline, yin and yang — is very delicate and it doesn't take much to disturb it. Too many Malaysian papayas, extra layers of Hong Kong humidity, etc. But don't let that hinder you from traveling — life is about risk!
Seriously though, one thing my visits to health care professionals in Southeast Asia really opened my eyes about was how women's health care can be seriously compromised by a society's taboos against the female body. As I think I say in that piece, not until I got to Europe was I actually _examined_for my complaints (standard yeast infection symptoms)! How can you diagnose without examining? How? I really think there should be greater awareness in these countries of women's needs and concerns. It really gave me more respect for our own (still very flawed) health care system.
ST: Do you still have friends in Southeast Asia? Have you heard from them since the tsunami? Did you visit any of the places that were hit?
JN: We met folks along the way who we exchanged numbers and addresses with, particularly Narong from A Few Perfect Hours, and a Singaporean woman named Wendy who we met on Bali. We saw Wendy when we returned to Singapore after our Bali trip and had lunch with her, but after that we lost touch. I think we sent Narong a postcard when we got back to the States, but we never heard back from him, so that was that.
As far as the awful tsunamis, which were centered in the Indian Ocean, we mostly spent our trip on the Gulf of Thailand side. So we never visited any of the regions which were directly affected. We thought about visiting the Thai island of Phuket, which was devastated by the tsunamis, but we went to Ko Phi Phi instead. From visiting many Southeast Asian beach spots, however, it's easy to imagine how vulnerable those regions were to the tsunami. Nightmarish!
ST: Which memorable experiences were you unable to include in A Few Perfect Hours? Will we get to read about them in future collections?
JN: There are definitely some other stories from that trip which deserve telling — one in particular about a circus we saw in Budapest that featured an act where live chickens were catapulted at a pile of dogs. Yes, live chickens. Yes, live dogs. The circus also featured a tumbler with his arm in a cast! And the Hungarian audience freaked us out with their strange lifeless, rhythmic clapping, all in unison. Socialist group clap?
ST: When your grandmother died, you reflected back on a cremation ceremony you saw in Bali. The Jewish ceremony and the Balinese were very different in many respects, but similar in others (attempting to comfort the living, while bidding a respectful farewell to the deceased). Thoughts?
JN: I go into detail about this issue in the book's final story, "Cremations, Cubicles, and Cant." I don't know how much I can add to the question than what's in the story, and I encourage your readers to check it out and let me know their reactions.
ST: Besides the Balinese cremation, you must have witnessed and experienced quite a few "alien" rituals, ceremonies and general everyday occurrences. How did these influence you, if at all? Have they shed any light on the "normality" of life in the United States?
JN: That's a good question. I think it gets to the heart of why I believe travel is so important. By spending as much time as we did away from home, and going to such "exotic" locations, we were forced to re-think everything about our lives which we considered "normal." This means everything from our daily routines to our preconceptions about people from other countries, different governmental systems, and spiritual/religious practices. I think in many ways that's exactly what this book is about: how my beliefs are challenged and I'm forced to re-evaluate them. Ultimately, I was so grateful for the experience because it taught me to avoid complacency. Back home in the States, I've tried to keep that "travel attitude," to avoid getting into ruts, jumping to conclusions, and just generally forgetting that life offers a multitude of possible choices.
ST: Given the chance, would you repeat your trek through Southeast Asia and Central Europe? If yes, why? If no, why not?
JN: Believe it or not, until late last year when Sari and I went to the Yucatan for two weeks, I hadn't been outside of North America in quite a while, and I was really antsy about it. But it's harder now to just pick up and leave. I remember when I was leaving my job at The Nation magazine ten years ago for my big adventure that all the older employees — i.e., those in their late 30s and older (like me now!) were envious and wistful, wishing they had the freedom to do the same thing. Now I understand how they felt. But, hell yeah, given the chance, I'd repeat our trip in a second. It would be fascinating to revisit the places we were last time to see how much things have changed in ten years. And I really miss certain things: the gekkos on the ceiling in Thailand; the slow ceiling fans in Malaysia; the banana pancake breakfasts in Indonesia; the way you'd walk down a street in Singapore and see a Chinse Buddhist temple, an Indian Hindu temple, an Islamic mosque, and a Christian church within yards of each other ... And I'd love to go back to Prague, which really is one of the most beautiful, scenic jewels of a city in all of Europe. Damn, you got me all nostalgic again!
ST: What other projects are you working on?
JN: have a couple of projects in the hopper. I'm always thinking about ways to travel abroad again, somehow using my comics as a vehicle. Possible options include a fellowship to study in Japan and a six-month consultancy in Kabul, Afghanistan, if you can believe that! I'm also mulling over a couple of new "Travel Tips," which come out of my recent trip to the Yucatan.
Long-term, my next graphic novel project is an offshoot of a story I did a couple of years ago about my adolescent obsession with charts, graphs, and lists. It would be an odd mix of a book, with comics, prose pieces, and reproductions of the many charts and graphs from that era. I'm still working on putting together a definite proposal, so I'll leave it at that for now.
Other than that, I'm working on promoting A Few Perfect Hours, trying to get it in more bookstores, and preparing for an event Sari and I will be doing at the local Barnes & Noblein my area in March.
ST: Which conventions will you be attending this year?
JN: I'm strongly considering heading out to APE this year. It's been years since I've been in San Francisco (where I used to live) and I haven't hit a West Coast con with A Few Perfect Hours as yet. Hopefully, there are still some folks out there who have yet to see the book. Other than APE, I'll be at MoCCA and SPX.