[Python-Dev] setuptools in 2.5. (original) (raw)

"Martin v. Löwis" martin at v.loewis.de
Thu Apr 20 08:30:55 CEST 2006

Anthony Baxter wrote:

And now let's look at some of the stuff that setuptools gives us:

- We have a CPAN-type system

I think it is unfair (to Richard Jones) to attribute this to setuptools. We already have a CPAN-type system: the Cheeseshop. What setuptools adds is roughly the CPAN shell (ie. CPAN.pm or however it is implemented). Actually, I think it is ez_setup that provides (something like) the CPAN shell.

It is my understanding that setuptools itself has nothing to do with a CPAN-like system, just as Makemakefile.pl has nothing to do with CPAN.

- Multiple installs of different versions of the same package, including per-user installs.

I never had the need, but I trust others do.

- The "develop" mode

This makes life that bit less painful all-round.

This could be added to distutils with no problems, right?

- The plugin/extension support

Extending distutils currently is a total pain in the arse.

If that's a desirable feature to have, it should be added to distutils; IOW, it should be available if you do "from distutils import setup", not just when you do "from setuptools import setup".

I'm a little suprised by the amount of fear and loathing this has generated. To me, there are such obvious benefits that I don't see why people are so vehemently against setuptools. I haven't seen any arguments that have convinced me that this isn't the right thing to do. Yes, there's still work to be done - but hell, we've only released the first alpha so far.

I'm not looking at it from a end-user's point of view. I trust that setuptools provides features that end-users want, and in a convenient way. My fear is in the maintainer's side: how many new bug reports will this add? How much code do I have to digest to even make the slightest change?

That is says from itself that it is version 0.7a1dev-r45536 doesn't help to reduce that fear.

I'm also suprised by how much some people seem to think that the current state of distutils functionality is acceptable or desirable. It's not - it's a mess.

I would like to require that this is solved by contributing to distutils, instead of replacing it. I know this is an unrealistic request to make - in particular because there is only a single developer world-wide which actively develops "something like that".

Requiring Phillip to rewrite distutils instead is certainly unfair - but I'm still unhappy with the path events take.

Finally, I'd like to point out that I think some of the hostility towards Phillip's work has been excessive.

I'd like to make clear that my hostility is only towards his work; never towards Phillip Eby himself.

Regards, Martin

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