[Python-Dev] Dropping init.py requirement for subpackages (original) (raw)

Guido van Rossum guido at python.org
Thu Apr 27 00:58:41 CEST 2006

On 4/26/06, Thomas Wouters <thomas at python.org> wrote:

On 4/26/06, Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote: > OK, forget it. I'll face the pitchforks. Maybe this'll help: http://python.org/sf/1477281 (You can call it 'oldtimer-repellant' if you want to use it to convince people there isn't any real backward-compatibility issue.)

I'd worry that it'll cause complaints when the warning is incorrect and a certain directory is being skipped intentionally. E.g. the "string" directory that someone had. Getting a warning like this can be just as upsetting to newbies!

> I'm disappointed though -- it sounds like we can never change anything > about Python any more because it will upset the oldtimers.

That's a bit unfair, Guido. There are valid reasons not to change Python's behaviour in this respect, regardless of upset old-timers.

Where are the valid reasons? All I see is knee-jerk -1, -1, -1, and "this might cause tools to do the wrong thing". Not a single person attempted to see it from the newbie POV; several people explicitly rejected the newbie POV as invalid. I still don't know the name of any tool that would break due to this and where the breakage wouldn't be easy to fix by adjusting the tool's behavior. Yes, fixing tools is a pain. But they have to be fixed for every new Python version anyway -- new keywords, new syntax, new bytecodes, etc.

Besides, you're the BDFL; if you think the old-timers are wrong, I implore you to put their worries aside (after dutiful contemplation.)

I can only do that so many times before I'm no longer the BDFL. It's one thing to break a tie when there is widespread disagreement amongst developers (like about the perfect decorator syntax). It's another to go against a see of -1's.

I've long since decided that any change what so ever will have activist luddites opposing it. I think most of them would stop when you make a clear decision -- how much whining have you had about the if-else syntax since you made the choice? I've heard lots of people gripe about it in private (at PyCon, of course, I never see Pythonistas anywhere else :-P), but I haven't seen any python-dev rants about it. I certainly hate PEP-308's guts, but if if-else is your decision, if-else is what we'll do. And so it is, I believe, with this case.

OK. Then I implore you, please check in that patch (after adding error checking for PyErr_Warn() -- and of course after a2 hs been shipped), and damn the torpedoes.

-- --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

More information about the Python-Dev mailing list