[Python-Dev] Are you ready for Mercurial migration? (original) (raw)

Brett Cannon brett at python.org
Fri Jul 2 20:37:54 CEST 2010

On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 08:49, anatoly techtonik <techtonik at gmail.com> wrote:

Antoine, I value you contribution to hgsvn project, and this thread is not a personal accusation of anybody in making proper transition - please understand that I would like to see the opinion of people who preferred not to be involved in lengthy discussions.

People who choose not to be involved in a lengthy discussion on a topic and thus most likely be ill-informed should not participate and expect to be taken seriously. Making statements without having some decent amount of knowledge on the subject just leads to bad decisions. In other words, I don't care about the opinion of uninformed individuals (and I doubt anyone else does either) so you trying to bring them into this is not helping matters.

This transition has been in the works since roughly December 2008 when I started evaluating whether moving to a DVCS was beneficial. That has been in the open either through PEPs or this mailing list, even a lightning talk at PyCon 2009. When Dirkjan took on the task (all by himself) to handle the transition that discussion has stayed public, mostly through emails on python-dev. This has been vetted as publicly as possible.

So people who wanted to participate when decisions were being made could have. But having you come in here and say that this needs to be discussed again is at least unproductive, if not insulting.

This transition will happen once a proper conversion is up and has been pounded on, as Martin has suggested. And the proper documentation will be in place before we hit the switch and turn off svn. Yes, it has been slow, but considering a single individual has been handling all technical aspects it is to be expected. And in case I have not said it publicly, I thank Dirkjan for sticking with this after all this time.

For personal pretensions against me - please start a new thread and no hijack.

Yes hijack. In case you have not noticed practically every reply on this email thread has said "stop stirring up trouble and try to help." All you are doing is muckraking at this point. If you want to help, be constructive instead of trying to drag this transition out and throw up barriers. We are beyond the point of bringing up alternatives to how to handle this. Now we just need manpower to fix the final details so we can get this finished. Letting this thread just go on is not helping anyone, so we are all trying to kill it before any more people waste their time with that wave of yours.

I am trying to solve the same problem as you are - make the Mercurial migration, but make it as painless as possible.

Then help! Fix the hgsubversion bug that is blocking the transition. Port the dev FAQ over to Mercurial if you don't want to code. Do something constructive! But trying to cause us to change plans that have been moving forward on the scale of years suddenly is not helping make the transition any less painless. All you are doing is pissing people off and causing us to have to waste our time telling you to stop doing what you are doing.

To be totally frank, Anatoly, you need to contribute in a positive way and without sounding demanding. Maybe you don't mean to sound demanding, but your emails sometimes come off like you think we should listen to all of your ideas with no backing of experience here or enough evidence to support your ideas. And then rehashing old decisions like this transition, arguing for svn bridges and the like, isn't helping improve people's perception of you. It's gotten to the point where I don't want to read your emails. If you keep up with the way you are interacting with people on this list I for one will add you to my python-dev blacklist filter (which currently consists of a single person, so it is not easy to get put on that list) so that I don't feel angry or frustrated every time I see an email from you.

-Brett

On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 6:08 PM, Antoine Pitrou <solipsis at pitrou.net> wrote:

To shed some light on the readiness of Python community for the switch I've opened public Google Wave. Please add your opinion if you can and send this link to other contributors you may know: Am I the only one to think this should really stop? By "this", I mean the flow of complaints and dubious "recommendations" you send here and on the bug tracker. We are volunteers, we don't need a boss, especially not one who prefers arguing about workflow rather than addressing concrete issues. I'm not sure if other people are finding those (Anatoly's) messages constructive and insightful. To me it looks like they are wasting the aggregate signal to noise ratio. Antoine.

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