[Python-Dev] #Python3 ! ? (was Python Library Support in 3.x) (original) (raw)

geremy condra debatem1 at gmail.com
Sun Jun 20 02:39:44 CEST 2010

On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 5:02 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:

After reading the discussion in the previous thread, signed in to #python and verified that the intro message starts with a lie about python3. I also verified that the official #python site links to "Python Commandment Don't use Python 3… yet". The excuse that the negative commandment site is not part of the official site is does not wash. The #python site maintainer choose that as the authoritative word on the topic "On using Python 2.x or Python 3.x".

Since a fair, half-intelligent person would know that the usability of Python3 depends on the user, this all strikes as conscious sabotage. To me, this, along with other reports, is really ugly. I do not wish to fight such people; but I would rather ask python3 questions in a pro- rather than anti-python3 atmosphere. #python is certainly not a place that I would refer new people to. Given that the 'owners' of #python have been asked and refuse to remove their negative-opinion-stated-as-leading-headline-fact, it seems to me that we need a separate #python3 channel. The topic could be "Welcome to discussion of Python3, the latest, greated version of Python." The first link might be to the current stable Python3 docs. Hence the '!' in the subject line. HoweverI have very little experience with IRC and consequently have little idea what getting a permanent, owned, channel like #python entails. Hence the '?' that follows. What do others think?

Seems like it turns a disagreement into a power struggle that python-dev is unlikely to win. If people here were interested in the irc, the irc culture would never have become as disconnected from the core group as it has, and even the most impassioned call isn't going to build an active community overnight. Furthermore, if #python has 200 people in it and #python3 is a ghost town, they can just tell anybody asking a python3 question to go to #python3 and snicker, reinforcing the widely held belief that python3 itself is a failure. It also runs the risk of hardening their existing position, and in any event begins the process of fracturing the community at a point where 3.x is probably not going to come out on top.

Bottom line, what I'd really like to do is kick them all off of #python, but practically I see very little that can be done to rectify the situation at this point.

Geremy Condra

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