[Python-Dev] #Python3 ! ? (was Python Library Support in 3.x) (original) (raw)

Terry Reedy tjreedy at udel.edu
Sun Jun 20 22:34:46 CEST 2010

On 6/20/2010 6:35 AM, Laurens Van Houtven wrote:

I'm one of the active people in #python that some people dislike for behavior with respect to Python 3.

As I wrote, I disliked the observable, written behavior, now changed. You are obviously a fine person. We both love Python and have both contributed time for years to helping others with Python.

The premise for this branch thread was: IF #python is really #python2 and somewhat anti-Python3, THEN (and only then), maybe we need a #python3.

I am delighted that you have already refuted the premise with a new, much improved, splash topic. I now feel free to ask Python3 questions on the existing channel -- things like "Is issue #### applicable to Python3?" -- as I work on reviewing tracker issues. In that respect, this thread is finished for me. But I hope it is just the start of better cooperation and communication.

Just a few notes in addition to other responses.

First of all I'd like to defuse the situation.

Excellently done.

Also, I'm pretty sure nobody has ever said that Python 3.x was a "failure", or anything like it.

I have no idea what has been said by you or anyone on #python, but people have posted on both python-list and here on py-dev things like "Python3 is not ready for use. It is a failure. Do not use it." (any of that sound familiar? ;-) and even "Python3 should be scrapped!". I am relieve that you have disassociated yourself and #python from such sentiments.

On newbies and version choice: I agree with Nick Efford that people using Python to learn about programming may be better off with Python3. I am using a subset of Python3 in a book on algorithms for the reasons he gave and others. Not even mentioned so far in this thread is the availability of unicode identifiers for people with non-Latin alphabets.

Of course, Asian schoolkids are unlikely to request help on #python. And the point about suggesting Python2 because that is what you all are good at helping with, is well taken. I do think people learning Python2 now should have a Python3-aware guide to doing so. This

In the mean while, we encourage people to write code that will be easy to port and behave well in 3.x: new-style classes, don't use eager versions when the Py3k default is lazy and you don't actually need the eager thing, use as many third party libraries as possible (the idea being that this would minimize effort needed to make the switch on the grand scale of things), use absolute imports always (and only explicit relative, but it's discouraged), always have a full unit test suite.

is a good start. I think something like that would be good for the #python web page, or added to python.org somewhere.

Terry Jan Reedy

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