[Python-Dev] Issue10403 - using 'attributes' instead of members in documentation (original) (raw)

Michael Foord fuzzyman at voidspace.org.uk
Tue Jun 28 13:35:40 CEST 2011

On 28/06/2011 12:04, Fred Drake wrote:

On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:54 AM, Michael Foord <fuzzyman at voidspace.org.uk> wrote:

Added to which there are other descriptors, notably property, that are not directly callable but are not provided as normal "data attributes" (although the access syntax is the same). Properties are much closer to methods as they are implemented on the class and fetched via the descriptor protocol. Instead of "data attributes" I prefer the term "instance attributes" although that doesn't include "class attributes" (or more precisely it doesn't cover "class attributes that aren't descriptors"). Given the availability of getattr and getattribute, I consider properties an implementation detail for some attributes. The fact that Python code is called on access is only marginally interesting.

Well, they're usually implemented as methods and backed by a real instance attribute. Usually (but not always) it makes more sense (IME) to group them with methods. The fact that they're accessed as an attribute is the uninteresting detail.

getattr and getattribute are interesting - they allow you to use attribute access syntax for things that aren't attributes.

I appreciate the fact that the Python data-model means methods are just object attributes, but they're not instance attributes and sometimes you need to make a distinction. (And yes it is helpful if the standard terminology leads people into a better understanding of the Python data model, but that still doesn't change the need on occasion for terminology that doesn't need to be explained whenever it is used.)

Given that how even methods are to be described depends on the context (if you're fetching bound methods as objects then it makes perfect sense to just talk about them as attributes) it doesn't seem an area amenable to one-size-fits-all terminology.

The problem with "data attributes" is that it doesn't mean anything, which I suppose is useful for invented terminology, but it means it doesn't convey anything precise to those who haven't heard the term before. If it becomes widely used then that changes I guess. I'd still normally just use "attributes" though... I'd read "data attributes" the same as "non-method attributes". For readers, calling them "attributes" is typically sufficient. It's rare to need to distinguish them from methods.

Yeah, this is all a grand bikeshed. I'm not sure I would understand "data attributes" unless it was clear from the context. I would wonder what qualifies something as "data".

It is an interesting question what terminology we should use in the documentation if we need to distinguish them, but I think that is still wandering away from the original question that was posed.

All the best,

Michael

-Fred

-- http://www.voidspace.org.uk/

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