[Python-Dev] Status of packaging in 3.3 (original) (raw)
Tarek Ziadé tarek at ziade.org
Wed Jun 20 12:30:51 CEST 2012
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On 6/20/12 11:49 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:22:07 +0200 Tarek Ziadé<tarek at ziade.org> wrote:
I tried to improve Distutils and I was stopped and told to start distutils2, because distutils is so rotten, any real change/improvment potentially brakes the outside world. If distutils was so rotten, distutils2 would not reuse much of its structure and concepts (and test suite), would it? 'much' is pretty vague here. distutils2 is a fork of distutils, that has evolved a lot
if you look at the code, beside the compilation part and some commands, most things are different.
distutils is "rotten" because when you change its internals, you might break some software that rely on them.
Most of the distutils2 improvements (new PEPs, setup.cfg, etc.) were totally possible in distutils, weren't they? I started there, remember ? And we ended up saying it was impossible to continue without breaking the packaging world.
Deciding to remove packaging from 3.3 is another instance of the same mistake, IMO. So what are your suggesting, since you seem to know what's a mistake and what's not ? I don't have any suggestion apart from keeping packaging in 3.3. But I also think it would be better for the community if people were not delusional when making decisions. Removing packaging from 3.3 is a big risk: users and potential contributors will be even less interested than they already are. That's a good point. But if no one works on its polishing now, it's going to be the same effect on people: they'll likely to be very annoyed if the replacer is not rock solid. Here's a datapoint: distribute (*) is downloaded 100x more times than distutils2 (**). (*) http://pypi.python.org/pypi/distribute/ (**) http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Distutils2/
why would you expect a different datapoint ?
Distutils2 was released as a beta software, and not really promoted yet
Distribute is downloaded automatically by many stacks out there, and PyPI does not make a difference whether the hit was from a human behind pip, or from a stack like zc.buildout
Regards Antoine.
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