Spanish Dreadnought Projects (original) (raw)

Spanish Dreadnought Projects

Although Spain remained neutral during the First World War, like many other nations she was interested in joining the world-wide naval buildup. The following discussion appeared on the MARHST-L list in May 1998 (thanks to Steve McLaughlin (stevem@sfpl.lib.ca.us) for permission to use it here.

Some weeks ago I asked for information about Spanish battleship projects, and Mr. Gorka L. Martinez Mezo was kind enough to supply both interesting information and some bibliographical references; in return for his kindness I offered to submit to the list information I had on Spanish battleship designs in the Thurston Notebooks, now held at the library of the National Maritime Museum. T.G. Owens (later Sir George Thurston, K.B.E.) was the chief naval architect for Vickers from around the turn of the century to the early 1920s, and his notebooks include information on several hundred ship designs -- although unfortunately there are no sketches. It took me a little longer than I'd planned to type this stuff up, but here it is at last. There are many odd points in the data I'm still trying to sort out, so if anybody has any ideas or insights I would very much like to hear them. It is my (foolish) hope to combine this information with other published information and compile a fairly complete and detailed article on Spanish battleships in the twentieth century (as a break from my never-ending Russian researches), so any additional information or references on this topic would be very welcome. Of course, I have no idea who would publish the damn thing, but since I'm in this for the fun of it, that's a secondary consideration...

In addition to the information from the notebooks, I've also included my own notes in [square brackets].

Design 336 "Battleship for Spain"

Notes: The date "5/9/07" is given toward the bottom of the page. This is much earlier than the naval program law (proposed in November 1908, enacted in January 1908), so this design may have been requested in order to get some cost information to be used in composing the law. Alternatively, Vickers, which was very active in Spain, probably had advance information about the upcoming law, and may have proposed the design on their own as a way of getting in on the ground floor. Written over the figures is a large note "Cancelled by new design."]
Length. B.P. 444'-6" Armament
Breadth mld 75'-6" 8 - 12" B.L. Guns
Depth mld 42'-0" 45cal. with
Draft.* mean 25'-9" 80 Rds per gun
Displacement 15,000 20 - 4" Q.f. Guns
Speed 19 1/2 knots 4 R.C. [?] Maxims
I.H.P. 16,500
Complement
Block. Coef.
Est. G.M. 2.5
Coal. normal
Coal full 700
Dimensions for 3' G.M. 1' on [added to] beam & 3" off draft*
" " 4' " 440' x 77'-6" x 41'-3" x 25'-3"

[*Note the use of the American spelling. Curious, but consistent throughout the earlier portions of the notebooks.]
Armour & Protection
Observer Tower 6"
Conning Tower 10"
Secondary Belt - 7" 6" 4" [this is apparently a progression
from aft forward]
Barbettes 10"
Screens 7" (aft only)
W.L. Belt 4" 6" 9" 6" 4"
Main Dk. over Cit. 1" fd 1"
Protective Dk in Cit & fd. flats 1" Slopes 2"
Aft of Cit. flats 3" Slopes 3"

Weights
Hull & fittings 5800
Armour 2420
Armament 2630
Protection 1020
Equipment 620
Machy. 1300
Margin (illegible) 410
Coal. 700
R.F.W. 100
______
15,000
Recipg. Machy. Prices Turbines
[Pound symbol]
Hull @ 11% 378,162 378,162
Machy. @ 15% 164,950 213,900
Armour 280,000 280,000
------- -------
823,112 872,062
10% Proft 82,311 87,206
------- -------
905,423 959,268
Armament 416,520 416,520
--------- ---------
1,321,943 1,375,788
Ammunition 91,855 91,855
--------- ---------
1,413,798 1,467,643

Note: these Prices Allow for 10% Profit on Armour over Sheffield's Profit.

Prices Quoted to Capt. Fuster 5/9/07 ex. ammunition [Pound symbol] 1,398,000. Armour [Pound symbol] 92,000 Complete [Pound symbol] 1,490,000 Spanish Programme provides for 3 battleships [Pound symbol] 1,607,140 each

Design 336 "Vickers Battleship for Spain" [Revised]

[No date shown. This was a development of the earlier design of the same number.]
Length. B.P. 435'-0" Armament
Breadth mld 77'-6" 8 - 12" 50 cal B.L. guns
Depth " 40'-9" 20 - 4" Q.f. Guns 50 cal
Draft. mean 25'-9" Q.F. guns
Displacement 15,100 Tons 2 - 3pr Q.f.
I.H.P. 15,500 at E [engines?] 4 - R.C. Maxims
-- 17,000 at Boilers 80 rds for 12"
Speed 19 1/2 Knots 200 " " 4"
Coal normal 900 tons 400 " " 3pr
" full 800 " " maxims
Complement 700
Radius of Action 5000 kts.

Armour & Protection. Thks in millimetres
Observer Tower 150 Conning Tower 250 Tube 150
Tube 75 Barbettes 250 Citadel 75
W.L. Belt
75. 100. 200. 230. Upper Belt 150
Upper Dk. over Citl. 38 Main Dk fd 50
Prote. Dk fd 38 Midships 25 Aft 50
Explosion Bhd. 38 Battery divisions 15

Weights Prices
Hull & fittings 5800 Total with Babcok Boilers
Armour 2150 [Pound symbol] 1,604,700
Protection 1274 Amount allowed for each ship
Armament 2880 in Concourse = 43,050,000 Ps
Equipment 600
Machinery 1350 Amount allowed by govt for
Coal 900 difference in exchange
------ 1,945,000
14,954 ----------
146 44,995,000
------ This at 28 Pesetas to the
15,100 [Pound symbol] = 1,606,964.

Displacement called 15,400 metric Tons = 15,150 English Tons

Table 3:

Table 3: "Elswick Alternative for Battleship." [These specifications follow the second design 336. Apparently the two firms, having won the Spanish contract in a consortium with John Brown, were now sharing design information, and Owens/Thurston thought it worth noting the design in his book for future reference.]
Length. B.P. 435'-0"
Breadth mld. 78'-6"
Depth mld. 40'-9"
Draft. mean 25'-9"
Displacement 15,500

armament same as Vickers design but disposed thus

[Here there is a rough sketch of a superimposed turret arrangement, two turrets forward, two aft, something like this:]
........-----/XXXXX|................|XXXXX\-----
.----/XXXXX|.|XXXX| |XXXX|.|XXXXX\-----
.....|XXXX|..|XXXX|..................|XXXX|..|....|
..--------------------------------------------------

Armour & Protection same as Vickers design.

Prices

[These prices apparently apply to Vickers design, although they follow the Elswick alternative design, with a double line -- which I've shown as the row of equal signs above -- between the Elswick data and the price list; note that the final price of 1,600,700 pounds is very close to the 1,604,700 for the second version of design 336, with Babcock boilers.]
[Pound sign]
Hull estimated cost built at Barrow (ex charges) 317,039
+Freight insurance & duty (ing. Armour) 24,000
+Additional cost of Steel Plates bought in Spain 12,400
+Timber for moulds 600
+Sundry expenses attending Trials, etc. 2000
+Keel blocks etc. 5360
+Estimated difference for Spanish labour 10,000 54360
-----------------
Hull ?ett Cost. [Pound sign] 371 399
Machinery (Yarrow Boilers) Est Cost Barrow 165,813
ex. charges

+Freight insurance, duty & extra cost of materials 9000
+Sundry expenses 5000
+Estimated dif of Spanish Labour 12000
Less [pound sign] 2000 for Govt conducting trials 24000
-------------
561212
27% Chgs on Hull & Machy. 151524
-------------
cost of H & M with chgs 712736
Profit at 25% 178184
-------------
Hull & Machy with Profit & Chgs 890920
Armour 263180
-------------
1,154,100
Armament ex Ammn 446,600
-------------
Total price with Yarrow boilers [Pound sign] 1,600,700

[From this point onwards the notebooks are written in a different hand from the earlier ones -- everything here is in neat block capitals, as one might expect a draftsman to write. The earlier pages are less neat, and letters often show little flourishes, with occasional bits of cursive writing thrown in. One theory comes to mind immediately -- that Owens/Thurston now had an assistant filling in the notebook at his direction. Other possibilities exist, I would imagine, but this seems the most likely to me.]

Design 336 "Spanish Battleship"

[This version of the design appears about 20 pages later in the notebook, which indicates that some time had passed. Many of the specifications are left blank; it may be that this design was abandonned, since published sources indicate the final design for the ESPANA class was prepared by Armstrong.]
Length. B.P. 435'-0" Armament
Breadth. Ext. 78'-9" 8 - 12" 50 cal B.L. Guns
Depth 20 - 4" 50 cal Q.F. Guns
Draft mean 25'-6"
Displacement 15,450 Tons
I.H.P. at engines 15,500
" " boilers 17,000
Speed in knots 19 1/2
Coal normal 800 Tons
" full
Complement
Radius of action
Block coef.
Estd. G.M.

Design 495 "3rd Spanish Battleship"

[Although there is a space for this, no characteristics are given; it's possible that a design was requested and roughed out, but never submitted, or the request was cancelled for some reason. It is probable that this was the enlarged version of the original design for the dreadnoughts mentioned by Mr. Martinez Mezo, with a 21-knot speed and two funnels.]

Design 655 "Battleship for Spain."

[Presumably prepared in 1913/14 for the second naval program. Note the armament of 15in/40 caliber guns, as opposed to the 15in/42 of British battleships, and also different from the 340mm guns apparently considered by the Spanish for this program's battleships. According to Paul Halpern, "The Mediterranean Naval Situation 1908-1914," some Spanish officials had expressed to Vickers their interest in the 15in gun, so this design may have been a response to that.]
520' B.P. 551' W.L. 88' x 42' x 26'-3"
20,500 tons. 22 knots
Oil Fuel Only

Armament

[Note: The first ammunition figure is apparently the "normal" figure used in estimating weights, while the figure at the end of the line, preceeded by "st.", indicates the maximum stowage.]
8 - 15" 40 cal. 80 rds. per gun st. 100
14 - 6" 50 " 150 " " " 200
2 - 47mm S.A. 400 " " " 400
2 - 75mm Landing
2 - V.R.C. 10,000 " " " 10,000
2 - 21" submerged
Training of big guns 65 [degree symbol]

Armour
M[ain]. Belt 250mm 1.5m below taper
to 130mm at lower edge and
main deck ford. 100mm and 76
mm aft 76mm
Main to u[pper] dk. 130mm battery
130mm Barbettes 250mm Also
con. tower.
Obse. t. 150mm
Boat dk. 38mm also U[pper] and M[ain] dks.
Prot. dk. [centerline symbol] F. 25mm S[lopes?] 38mm
" " ends 25mm

Third Spanish Naval Programme (Revised), 1921

[Four capital ship sketch designs are included in the notebooks; two battleships (designs 777A and B), and two battlecruisers (designs 778C and 778D). These may be the most interesting ones in the group, since they seem not to be mentioned in any of the published sources I have looked at so far. Note especially the enormous size of the battlecruiser projects. Also the fact that the designs are labelled "Vickers" may indicate that other designs were also prepared by other firms -- e.g., Armstrong -- and that Sir George wanted to make sure he remembered that these designs were drawn up by Vickers.]
Battleships (Vickers)
777A 777B
Length B.P. 660'-0" 600'-0"
Breadth ext. (over bulge) 102'-0" 104'-0"
Depth Mld. 49'-10" 49'-10"
Draught. 29'-3" 28'-9"
Displacement. 33,500 tons 29,500 tons
Speed. 25 knots 25 knots
S.H.P. 50,000 50,000
Boilers. oil fuel only oil fuel only

Armour
W.L. Belt (mag-nes & machy) 12" 12"
Upper belt " " "
M[ain] to U[pper] dk. 12" 12"
Upper deck (mags & machy) 7" 7"
Barbettes 12" 12"
Ford. conning tower 11"-9" 11"-9"

Protection
Lower dk. at ends 4" 4"
Longl. explosion bhd. 2" 2"
Trans bulkhds. (end of mags) 2" 2"
Funnel casing. 2" 2"

Armament
15 inch 42 cal. guns 9 (triple mts) 6 (twin mts)
5.5 inch 50 cal. Q.F. guns. 10 10
4 inch H.A. guns 4 4
600m/m (24") sub. torpedo tubes 4 4

Hull & fittings 13,200 11,500
Equipment 1,000 1,000
Protection 1,520 1,290
Armour 8,300 8,470
Armament 4,608 3,430
Ammunition 969 689
Machinery 1,890 1,890
Oil fuel 1,000 1,000
Margin 513 231
------ ------
33,000 29,500
------ ------
called 33,500

Battlecruisers (Vickers)

778A 778B
Length B.P. 890'-0" 810'-0"
Breadth ext. (over bulge) 104'-0" 102'-0"
Depth Mld. 49'-10" 49'-10"
Draught. 30'-6" 29'-0"
Displacement. 46,500 tons 39,000 tons
Speed. 33 knots 31 knots
S.H.P. 180,000 140,000
Boilers. oil fuel only oil fuel only

Armour
W.L. Belt (mag-nes & machy) 12" 12"
Upper belt " " "
M[ain] to U[pper] dk. 12" 12"
Upper deck (mags & machy) 7" 7"
Barbettes 12" 12"
Ford. conning tower 11"-9" 11"-9"

Protection
Lower dk. at ends 4" 4"
Longl. explosion bhd. 2" 2"
Trans bulkhds. (end of mags) 2" 2"
Funnel casing. 2" 2"

Armament
15 inch 42 cal. guns 9 (triple mts) 6 (twin mts)
5.5 inch 50 cal. Q.F. guns. 12 12
4 inch H.A. guns 4 4
600m/m (24") sub. torpedo tubes 4 4

Hull & fittings 17,500 15,500
Equipment 1,000 1,000
Protection 1,878 1,770
Armour 11,940 9,390
Armament 4,644 3,466
Ammunition 985 705
Machinery 6,250 5,000
Oil fuel 1,500 1,500
Margin 303 669
------ ------
46,000 39,000
------ ------
called 46,500

The following comments (27 May, 1998) are from Mr. Gorka L. Martinez Mezo (glmm@activanet.es):
**************************************************************
Design 336 "Battleship for Spain"

Having in mind that ESPA=D1A was laid down February 5, 1909, the project = had to be approved and funded before the law was passed.
*************************************************************
Design 655 "Battleship for Spain."

This later data is most interesting. According to my most exhaustive sour= ce "Vicisitudes de una poletica naval", nothing was thought about mounting= 15in rifles before the 20s and them even 12in armament was considered! What I surprise me most is the Battlecruiser stuff, is the first time I have hea= rd of. This data is most valuable for me, thanks!

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Last Updated: 6 June, 1998