Cut and Paste Info on Eastern Orthodoxy (original) (raw)

The following info on Eastern Orthodoxy is for quick reference and cut-and-paste opportunities on the Internet when discussing that church. Is it truly Christian?Info on Eastern Orthodoxy

  1. Apocrypha (Back to Top)
    1. Eastern Orthodox Apocryphal Books are …
      1. “Tobit, Judah, more chapters of Esther and Daniel, the Books of Maccabees, the Book of the Wisdom of Solomon, the Book of Sirach, the Prophecy of Baruch, and the Prayer of Manasseh—are considered by the Orthodox to be fully part of the Old Testament because they are part of the longer canon that was accepted from the beginning by the early Church. The same Canon [rule] of Scripture is used by the Eastern Orthodox Church.” (https://oca.org/questions/scripture/canon-of-scripture)
    2. Ten Reasons to Reject The Apocrypha As Scripture.
      1. Jesus excluded the Apocrypha in several of his references to the Scriptures. For example, “Now He said to them, ‘These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled ’”(Luke 24:44). He excluded the Apocrypha. Jesus also cited the first and last book of the Old Testament and excluded the Apocrypha. He said, “From the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation” (Luke 11:51). The traditional Jewish Canon was arranged from Genesis to Chronicles, making Chronicles the last book of the Jewish arrangement of the Old Testament. “The blood of Abel” is from Genesis. “The blood of Zechariah” is from Chronicles. So, Jesus was citing the first and last book of the Old Testament canon and in so doing excluded the Apocrypha.
      2. There are no clear citations from the Apocrypha used by Jesus or the Apostles.
      3. The Jews did not accept the Apocrypha as Scripture.
      4. Many church Fathers rejected the Apocrypha as Scripture, where others just used them for devotional purposes. For example, Jerome, the great Biblical scholar, and translator of the Latin Vulgate, rejected the Apocrypha as Scripture though, supposedly under pressure, he did make a hurried translation of it. In fact, most of the church fathers in the first four centuries of the Church rejected the Apocrypha as Scripture. Along with Jerome, they include Origen, Cyril of Jerusalem, and Athanasius.
      5. The Apocrypha contains no predictive prophecy, and there is no new Messianic truth revealed, therein.
      6. It is not cited as authoritative by any prophetic book written after them.
      7. Maccabees says there were no prophets in Israel at their time (cf. 1 Macc. 9:27; 14:41), thereby casting doubt on its own inspiration as well as the inspiration of the other books of the Apocrypha.
      8. The Apocrypha contains superstition. It teaches that putting the heart of a fish on hot coals drives away evil spirits (Tobit 6:8). It teaches giving money for the sins of the dead (Tobit 4:11, 2 Macc. 12:43).
      9. It contains a historical error when it teaches that Nebuchadnezzar was the King of the Assyrians (Judith 1:5). For these reasons, we cannot conclude that the Apocrypha belongs in the canon of Scripture.
    3. Question for Eastern Orthodox.
      1. Do you Eastern Orthodox believe what the Apocrypha teaches, that putting the heart of a fish on hot coals drives away evil spirits (Tobit 6:8)?
      2. Do you believe you should give money for the sins of the dead (Tobit 4:11, 2 Macc. 12:43).
      3. Do you believe that Nebuchadnezzar was the King of the Assyrians (Judith 1:5)?
    4. Church Fathers who rejected the Apocrypha
      1. Athanasius
        1. Athanasius (300?-375) excludes Apocrypha from canon of scripture: “But since we have made mention of heretics as dead, but of ourselves as possessing the Divine Scriptures for salvation…some few of the simple should be beguiled from their simplicity and purity, by the subtilty of certain men, and should henceforth read other books – those called Apocryphal – led astray by the similarity of their names with the true books…3…to reduce into order for themselves the books termed Apocryphal, and to mix them up with the divinely inspired Scripture…it seemed good to me also, having been urged thereto by true brethren, and having learned from the beginning, to set before you the books included in the Canon, and handed down, and accredited as Divine; to the end that anyone who has fallen into error may condemn those who have led him astray; and…4 There are, then, of the Old Testament, twenty-two books in number; for, as I have heard, it is handed down that this is the number of the letters among the Hebrews; 5 Again it is not tedious to speak of the [books] of the New Testament…” [the Apocryphal books are excluded!] (Athanasius, Festal Letter 39:2-5)
      2. Jerome (347-420)
        1. Jerome (347-420) says Judith, Tobit, Maccabees, not scripture: “As, then, the Church reads Judith, Tobit, and the books of Maccabees, but does not admit them among the canonical Scriptures, so let it read these two volumes for the edification of the people, not to give authority to doctrines of the Church.” – (Jerome, Prefaces to the Books of the Vulgate Version of the Old Testament, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and the Song of Songs).
      3. Julius Africanus (160-240)
        1. Julius Africanus (160-240) says the Apocryphal book of Susanna is a forgery: “In your sacred discussion with Agnomon, you referred to that prophecy of Daniel which is related of his youth. This at that time, as was meet, I accepted as genuine. Now, however, I cannot understand how it escaped you that this part of the book is spurious. For, in sooth, this section, although apart from this it is elegantly written, is plainly a more modern forgery. There are many proofs of this…But a more fatal objection is, that this section, along with the other two at the end of it, is not contained in the Daniel received among the Jews,” (Julius Africanus, A Letter to Origen from Africanus About the History of Susanna)
  2. Authority (Back to Top)
    1. Outside of EO, no one has the authority to use the word of God.
      1. What is your ultimate authority by which you say I don’t have authority to interpret God’s word?
      2. Why does a person need authority to interpret God’s word?
      3. How do you know that only EO people have the authority to interpret God’s word?
        1. Just saying I don’t have authority doesn’t mean you are correct. Please demonstrate that I don’t have the authority.
    2. Test EO Authority
      1. How do we test this to see if it is true? After all, 1 Thess. 5:21 says to test all things. Can the Pope and the Bishops do what Jesus and the apostles did? Jesus said his authority to forgive sins was demonstrated by his miracles which he exercised on command (Matt. 9:6; Luke 5:24; John 5:8). He gave this authority to the disciples to pronounce forgiveness of sins (John 20:23), heal all disease and sickness (Matt. 10:1), as well as raise the dead (Matt. 10:8). Jesus healed the lame (Matt. 15:30; 21:14). Peter healed the lame on command (Acts 3:6) as did Paul (Acts 14:8-10). Jesus healed paralytics on command (Luke 5:24; Matt. 9:6; Mark 2:10-12). Peter also healed the paralytic on command (Acts 9:34). Jesus raised the dead with a command (Mark 5:38-42; Luke 7:14-15; John 11:43-44). Peter raised the dead by command (Acts 9:40-41). So, apostolic authority was clearly demonstrated by the apostles uttering commands of healing and raising the dead. Since Jesus gave the apostles the authority to do the miraculous on command (Matt. 10:1, 8), then those with the apostle’s authority (the Pope and the Bishops) should be able to do the same thing since they claim to have the same apostolic authority. Since the Pope and Bishops do not do the miraculous on command (otherwise it would be known to all), then they do not have apostolic authority.
  3. Bible (Back to Top)
    1. Eastern Orthodox routinely assert that their church gave us the Bible. But that is problematic for several reasons.
      1. If we did not need the Eastern Orthodox church to give us the Old Testament, why do we need it to give us the New Testament?
      2. The Eastern Orthodox church did not give us the Bible. God did. Christians in councils recognized God’s word. They did not give it to us. They did not produce it. They only collected what God had already provided and officially recognized what was in it and canonized it; that is, they officially recognized what was inspired.
      3. The Christian Church recognized what was Scripture. It did not establish it. Jesus said, “My sheep hear my voice and they follow me…” (John 10:27).
  4. Charity, works of (Back to Top)
    1. Works of charity listed
      1. Eastern Orthodox will sometimes attempt to differentiate between works of the law and works of charity. They sometimes say that verses such as Rom. 3:28, Gal. 2:16, 21 are referring to Old Testament law and not New Testament works of charity – which they say are necessary for salvation. But, they fail to understand that works of charity are works of the Law.
      2. Works of charity are such things as feeding the poor, (Lev. 25:35); helping the poor, (Deut. 15:7); not oppressing the stranger, (Ex. 23:9); to give charity, (Deut. 15:11); showing love for the stranger, (Deut. 10:19); bearing another’s burden, (Ex. 23:5); to wrong no one when buying and selling, (Lev. 25:14); to not stand idly by when human life is in danger (Lev. 19:16); to not afflict an orphan or widow, (Ex. 22:21); honor one’s parents, (Ex. 20:12). These works of charity are included in the Old Testament works of The Law.
  5. Church, The (Back to Top)
    1. The word ‘church’ in the New Testament is ekklesia and occurs 112 times. The Greek word ekklesia is used in five main ways: the body of Christ, gathering of people, local churches, people of God, ecclesiastical body. Note, verses can be interpreted in more than one way, I’ve included those in multiple things. Therefore, the percentages will add up to more than 100%
      1. The body of Christ (39 occurrences, 35%), Mark 16:18; Acts 2:47; 5:11; 9:31; 12:1; 12:5; 20:28; 1 Cor. 11:6; 11:22; 12:28; 14:4, 5, 12, 23, 28:33; 15:9; 2 Cor. 8:18; Gal. 1:13; Eph. 3:10, 21; 5:23, 24, 25, 27, 29, 32; Phil. 3:6; Col. 1:18, 24; 1 Tim. 3:15; Heb. 12:23; 3 John 6, 9, 10, Rev. 2:29; 3:6, 13, 22; 22:16
      2. A gathering of people (3 occurrences, 3%), Acts 19:32, 39, 41
      3. The Local churches, (72 occurrences, 64%), Matthew 18:17; Acts 8:1; 11:26; 13:1; 14:23, 27; 15:3, four, 22, 41; 16:5; 18:2; 20:17; Romans 16:1, four, five, 16, 23; 1 Cor. 1:2; 4:17; 7:17; 10:32; 11:18; 14:19, 23, 28, 433, 35; 16:1, 19; 2 Cor. 1:1; 8:1, 18, 19, 23, 24; 11:28; 12:13; Gal. 1:2, 22; Phil. 4:15, 16; 1 Thess. 1:1; 2:14; 2 Thess. 1:1, 4; 5:16; Philem. 1:2; Heb. 2:12; James 5:14; 3 John 9, 10; Rev. 1:4, 11, 20; 2:1, seven, eight, 11, 12, 17, 18, 23, 29; 3:1, six, seven, 13, 14, 22: 22:16
      4. The people of God, (12 occurrences, 11%), Acts 5:11; 7:38; 8:3; 9:31; 11:22; 12:1, 5; 1 Cor. 1 Cor. 10:32; 15:9; Eph. 1:22; 1 Tim. 3:15; Heb. 12:23
      5. An ecclesiastical body, (23 occurrences, 21%), 16:18; 18:17; Acts 9:31; 12:1; 15:22; 16:4; 1 Cor. 6:4; 10:32; 11:16; 12:28; 14:4, five, 12; 1 Tim. 3:5, 15; 5:16; James 5:14; 3 John 10; Rev. 2:29; 3:6, 13, 22; 22:16
  6. Church Fathers (Back to Top)
    1. Questions for Eastern Orthodox People
      1. Can you produce an infallible list of the church fathers?
      2. Can you produce an infallible list of authentic writings of the church fathers?
      3. Can you please quote any church fathers who venerated angels for me?
      4. Can you please quote any church fathers who venerated saints for me?
      5. Can you please quote any church fathers who venerated icons for me?
      6. How do you know which Church Fathers are the right ones?
  7. Eastern Orthodox Church (Back to Top)
    1. Anathema on all who are not EO
      1. “That whoever does not confess with heart and mouth that he is a child of the Eastern Church baptized in Orthodox style, and that the Holy Spirit proceeds out of only the Father, essentially and hypostatically, as Christ says in the Gospel, shall be outside of our Church and shall be anathematized.”” (The Synodikon of Orthodoxy, (https://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2010/02/synodicon-of-orthodoxy.html)
  8. Eastern Orthodox Church’s claims about itself (Back to Top)
    1. The EO preserves the original: “Following the example of the Holy Fathers, the Church preserves today, as she did in the past, the holy apostolic precepts, synodal canons, and sacred traditions, always advancing the holy fasts as the perfect ascetic path for the faithful leading to spiritual perfection and salvation…” (https://www.holycouncil.org/fasting)
    2. Established by Jesus: “The Orthodox Church founds the unity of the Church on the fact of her establishment by our Lord Jesus Christ, and on the communion in the Holy Trinity and in the sacraments. This unity is expressed through the apostolic succession and the patristic tradition and is lived out in the Church up to the present day.” (https://www.holycouncil.org/rest-of-christian-world)
    3. World Council of Churches: “The local Orthodox Churches that are members of the WCC participate fully and equally in the WCC, contributing with all means at their disposal to the advancement of peaceful co-existence and co-operation in the major socio-political challenges…Remaining faithful to her ecclesiology, to the identity of her internal structure, and to the teaching of the ancient Church of the Seven Ecumenical Councils, the Orthodox Church’s participation in the WCC does not signify that she accepts the notion of the “equality of Confessions,” and in no way is she able to accept the unity of the Church as an inter-confessional compromise.” (https://www.holycouncil.org/rest-of-christian-world)
  9. Eucharist (Back to Top)
    1. Eastern Orthodoxy on the Eucharist
      1. “…and also to transform the offered bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ… it contains the true Body and Blood of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins and eternal life…Eastern Christianity has made no attempt to explain how what is perceived as bread and wine is truly the physical Body and Blood of Christ…the Eucharist is treated by the Orthodox as that which it is believed to be: the true Body and Blood of the crucified and risen Savior.” (Tibbs, Eve. A Basic Guide to Eastern Orthodox Theology (p. 157-158). Baker Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.)
    2. Propitiatory
      1. “The Holy Eucharist is the seal of the proclamation of the communion with God. It is the only Sacrament offered by the Church in which the elements of bread and wine not only carry the Grace of God, as a mysterion, but are “changed” into and “are” the very Body and the very Blood of Christ, being a propitiatory sacrifice.” https://www.goarch.org/-/the-fundamental-teachings-of-the-eastern-orthodox-church
        1. Response: The Bible says that Jesus was offered once for all (Heb. 7:26-27; 9:28). The Bible says that Jesus was offered once for the sins of all time (Heb. 10:10-12). The repeated sacrificial system is of no value (Heb. 10:1, 11). Therefore, the EO Eucharist is a violation of Scripture, a useless and false re-sacrifice of Christ, that is blasphemous.
        1. Hebrews 7:26–27, “For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens; 27 who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.”
        2. Hebrews 9:28, “so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.”
        3. Hebrews 10:1, “For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near.” 11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.
    3. Questions
      1. How is it possible for the Eucharist to be the body and blood of Christ? Isn’t a man only in one place at one time as Jesus was in the incarnation? He is still a man (1 Tim. 2:5). Therefore, the incarnation means that the man Jesus is only at one place at a time. Therefore, the Eastern Orthodox doctrine of the Eucharist violates the doctrine of the incarnation of Christ.
      2. The Eucharist is the broken body and shed blood of Christ, right? When Jesus instituted the Lord’s Supper, He said that it was His body and blood, but how can that be since He was sitting right there? Was He sitting there and also physically in the bread and wine, too?
      3. The Eucharist is the broken body and shed blood of Christ, right? When Jesus instituted the Lord’s Supper, He said that it was His body and blood, but He hadn’t yet been crucified, so how could it be His shed blood and broken body?
  10. Eucharist, problems with EO view (Back to Top)
  11. Question: A man is at one place at a time: How is it possible for the Eucharist to be the body and blood of Christ? Isn’t a man only in one place at one time, as Jesus was in the incarnation? He is still a man (1 Tim. 2:5). Therefore, the incarnation means that the man Jesus is only at one place at a time. Therefore, the Catholic doctrine of the Eucharist violates the doctrine of the incarnation of Christ.
  12. Question: Was Jesus physically in two places at once? The Eucharist is the broken body and shed blood of Christ, right? When Jesus instituted the Lord’s Supper, He said that it was His body and blood, but how can that be since He was sitting right there? Was He sitting there and also physically in the bread and wine, too?
  13. Question: If Jesus partook of The Supper after he instituted it, was he drinking his own blood and eating his own flesh?
  14. Church Fathers
    1. Cannibilism “But if it be unlawful even to speak of this, and if for men to partake of the flesh of men is a thing most hateful and abominable, and more detestable than any other unlawful and unnatural food or act,” (Athenagoras, 133-190 AD, On the Resurrection of the Dead, 8).
    2. Resemblance of “For if sacraments had not some points of real resemblance to the things of which they are the sacraments, they would not be sacraments at all. In most cases, moreover, they do in virtue of this likeness bear the names of the realities which they resemble.” (Augustine, 354-430 AD, Letter 98:9).
    3. Figurative “’Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man,’ says Christ, ‘and drink His blood, ye have no life in you.’ This seems to enjoin a crime or a vice; it is therefore a figure, enjoining that we should have a share in the sufferings of our Lord,” (Augustine, On Christian Doctrine, 3:16:24).
    4. Figurative “And He blessed the wine, saying, ‘Take, drink: this is my blood’ – the blood of the vine. He figuratively calls the Word ‘shed for many, for the remission of sins’ – the holy stream of gladness.’” (Clement of Alexandria, 150-215 AD, The Instructor, 2:2).
    5. Symbols “Elsewhere the Lord, in the Gospel according to John, brought this out by symbols, when He said: ‘Eat ye my flesh, and drink my blood,’ describing distinctly by metaphor the drinkable properties of faith and the promise, (Clement of Alexandria, 150-215 AD, The Instructor, 1:6).
    6. Symbols “For again, He gave Himself the symbols of His divine dispensation to His disciples, when He bade them make the likeness of His own Body… to give them bread to use as the symbol of His Body,” (Eusebius, 263-339 AD, Demonstratio Evangelica, 8:1).
    7. Representation “…nor the bread by which he represents his own proper body, thus requiring in his very sacraments the ‘beggarly elements’ of the Creator,” (Tertullian, 155-220 AD, Against Marcion, 1:14).
    8. Wine and Bread “For just as he, who was priest of the Gentiles, is not represented as offering outward sacrifices, but as blessing Abraham only with wine and bread, in exactly the same way our Lord and Saviour Himself first, and then all His priests among all nations, perform the spiritual sacrifice according to the customs of the Church, and with wine and bread darkly express the mysteries of His Body and saving Blood.” (Eusebius, 263-339 AD, Demonstratio Evangelica, 5:3).
  15. Asking Jesus to forgive you of your sins:
    1. Regarding how our sins are forgiven. Jesus is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14; Colossians 2:9). Jesus has all authority in heaven and earth (Matthew 28:18). Jesus forgives sins (Luke 5:20; 7:48). Jesus tells us to pray to him (John 14:14). Questions about forgiveness. 1) If we pray to Jesus and ask him to forgive us of all of our sins, will he forgive us or will he withhold his forgiveness? 2) If he withholds his forgiveness, why would he do that if we are coming to him for forgiveness? 3) If all of our sins are forgiven, then why do we need a priest to forgive us of our sins? 4) Have you ever prayed to Jesus and asked him to forgive you of all your sins? If not, why not?
  16. Grace (Back to Top)
  17. To the Eastern Orthodox grace is the energies of God which are communicated to people and which deify them
  18. Interpretation of Scripture
  19. Why do I need authority to interpret Scripture? Am I not able to read a verse and understand it without Eastern Orthodox Church authority? Or is properly interpreting Scripture only possible if I have Church authority to understand it? If that is the case, then who in the Eastern Orthodox Church has the authority to understand Scripture? Furthermore, how do you know they are the right ones? How do you know 1 5:22 says to abstain from every form of evil (NASB). I interpret it to me that I should refrain from practicing every kind of evil. Am I right? If you say I am correct, then how did I interpret it properly without church authority? If I am wrong, then what does it really mean?
  20. If I need authority to interpret scripture, can you show me that requirement in Scripture? If such a requirement is not in Scripture, then where does it come from? If the church says I need authority to interpret Scripture, why should we trust with the church says? How do I know that such a requirement from any church isn’t just a means to retain control over its people?
  21. How do you know I need authority to interpret Scripture? Where in Scripture does it say I need authority to interpret Scripture? If it’s not in Scripture, then where does such a requirement come from? If the Eastern Orthodox Church says I need authority to interpret Scripture, how do I know the Eastern Orthodox Church is correct? If I interpret Scripture to show that the Eastern Orthodox has the authority to interpret Scripture, then where did I get my authority to make such an interpretation? If you say I get the authority to interpret Scripture for the Eastern Orthodox Church.
  22. Is it possible that a Christian can rightly interpret God’s word apart from the Eastern Orthodox Church’s authority? In John 11:35it says that Jesus wept. The context is he was crying over Lazarus’ death. I believe that what it means is that Jesus actually wept. Am I wrong in my interpretation?
  23. Am I correct in my interpretation? John 11:35 says, “Jesus wept.” I interpret it to mean that Jesus wept. Romans 3:28 says, “For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.” I interpret it to mean that our justification is by faith without the works of the Law. Am I right in these? Do I need someone else’s authority to understand God’s word? If I am right, how can I be right without being infallible? How can I be right without the authority of the Eastern Orthodox Church? If I am wrong, then what do those verses really mean? I await your response.
  24. If we must have authority to interpret Scripture, why does Paul the apostle tell us in Romans 14:5 to let people be fully persuaded in their own minds regarding worship days? If we are to submit to the authority of the Eastern Orthodox interpretation, why does Paul speak to the contrary in 14:5? In Acts 17:11 Luke praised the Jews for examining what Paul and Silas were teaching against Scripture. Were they without Eastern Orthodox Church authority when they compared things to Scripture? If so, why does Luke call them fair minded? If not, why do we need Eastern Orthodox Church authority to interpret Scripture
  25. 1 Thess. 5:22 says to abstain from every form of evil (NASB). I interpret it to me that I should refrain from practicing every kind of evil. Am I right? If you say I am correct, then how did I interpret it properly without church authority? If I am wrong, then what does the verse really mean?
  26. If only the Eastern Orthodox Church has the authority to interpret Scripture, how do you know that’s true? If you believe it because the Eastern Orthodox Church said so, how do you know it is true?
  27. If proper authority is necessary to interpret Scripture, then who in the Eastern Orthodox Church has this authority?
  28. How do you know that the Eastern Orthodox Church has the authority to interpret Scripture?
  29. If you say that the Eastern Orthodox Church teaches you that only the Eastern Orthodox Church has the authority to interpret Scripture, how do you know that such a claim is correct?
  30. If you say that the Scriptures teach that the Eastern Orthodox Church alone has the authority to interpret Scripture, then are you claiming your own authority when interpreting scripture in such a matter?
  31. If I need authority to interpret scripture, can you show me that requirement in Scripture?
  32. If such a requirement is not found in Scripture, then why must I believe that I need authority to interpret Scripture?
  33. If such a requirement is not found in Scripture, then where does it come from?
  34. Icon (Back to Top)
  35. Icon defined
    1. “In the Orthodox Church, an icon is a sacred image, a window into heaven. An image of another reality, of a person, time and place that is more real than here and now.” (http://ww1.antiochian.org/icons-eastern-orthodoxy)
    2. “Icons are representations of the Heavenly. They are expressions of Orthodox Faith, teaching, and worship. The Greek word for “Icon” is, “Αγιογραφία,” which can be separated into two words. 1) Άγιο, meaning Holy or not of this world (Heavenly) 2) Γράφω, meaning to write. Therefore, Icons are not drawings or creations of imagination. They are in fact writings of things not of this world. Icons can represent our Lord Jesus Christ, the Virgin Mary, and the Saints. They can also represent the Holy Trinity, Angels, the Heavenly hosts, and even events.” (https://www.orthodoxmuskegon.church/iconography-project/the-meaning-of-icons)
  36. Justification (Back to Top)
  37. EO say that both faith (that God grants in Jesus) and works (that God gives us to do) together bring justification. Because of this, justification is a process since the works we do take time, over our whole lives. Therefore, you cannot be justified by faith alone in Christ alone because you must have works also.Justification in EO
  38. Quotes from goarch.org
    1. https://www.goarch.org/-/how-are-we-saved-
    2. “According to St. Paul, not only loving deeds but also the sacraments of Baptism (Rom 6:1-11) and the Eucharist (1 Cor 10:16-22; 11:23-32) are decisive to salvation.”
    3. “In these many ways, according to Christ, Orthodox Christians throughout their lives receive salvation and renewal through faith, works, and the sacraments of the Church.”
    4. What is the event at which salvation truly takes hold? Baptism!
    5. “God will render to every person according to his works; to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, God will give eternal life; but for those who . . . obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury” (Rom 2:6-8).
    6. “Orthodox Christians we do not believe in predestination. Jesus said: “Whoever wants to come after me, let him take up his cross and follow me,” (Mark 8:34).
    7. “The reception of the gift of salvation is not a one-time event but a life-time process
    8. Paul employs the verb “to save” (sozesthai) in the past tense (“we have been saved,” Rom 8:24; Eph 2:5); in the present tense (“we are being saved,” 1 Cor 1:18; 15:2), and in the future tense (“we will be saved,” Rom 5:10).
  39. Quotes from orthodoxwiki.org
    1. https://orthodoxwiki.org/Justification
    2. The word justification refers to the process or state of becoming righteous
    3. There is no necessity for a juridical pronouncement of innocence, but rather Christ’s righteousness is imparted to man in a transformative manner through Christ and his death on the Cross
    4. Baptismal service text clearly defines this belief when the convert or newly baptized infant [after the baptism] is told, “You are justified; you are illumined!” (GOAA – The Service of Holy Baptism
    5. “Justification, the impartation of righteousness, begins at conversion through the mercy of God, and it continues throughout the life of the Christian as one is conformed, in righteousness, to the image and likeness of God through the power of the Holy Spirit.”
  40. Quotes from orthodoxbridge.com
    1. https://orthodoxbridge.com/2015/02/09/what-do-orthodox-christians-believe-about-justification/
    2. Justification – This term deals with how a person comes into and maintains a right relationship with God. Ultimately, this is made possible by the cross of Christ, by which He made expiation for our sins, granting us forgiveness and bringing us into a right relationship with God. Justification is accomplished at baptism and maintained through a life of obedience to God and confession of sins.”
    3. Christus Victor – Literally “Christ the Victor” (IC XC NIKA), this concept is perhaps the most common expression of our salvation in Orthodox Christianity
    4. “Justification is accomplished at baptism, the point where a person is granted forgiveness of sins and placed in a right relationship with God, and it is maintained through a life of obedience to God and confession of sins.”
    5. It is accomplished at baptism, the sacramental instrument by which sins are forgiven, and is maintained by confession of sins.”
  41. Quotes from the Orthodox Study Bible
    1. “Justification (being made righteous) by faith is not a one-time “not guilty” verdict, as some may teach. Rather, it is Christ living in us, and we in Him (Gal 2:20). Thus, to be justified is to be in communion with Jesus Christ in an ongoing, dynamic, and growing life with Him.” (Nelson, Thomas. The Orthodox Study Bible (p. 1549). Thomas Nelson. Kindle Edition.)
  42. Verses on Justification to counter the Eastern Orthodox position
    1. “being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus,” ( 3:24).
    2. “For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law,” ( 3:28).
    3. “For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” ( 4:3).
    4. “But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,” ( 4:5).
    5. “Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,” ( 5:1).
    6. “Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him,” ( 5:9).
    7. “that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved,” ( 10:9).
    8. “But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace,” ( 11:6).
    9. “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God,” ( 2:8).
    10. “He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,” (Titus 3:5).
  43. Mary (Back to Top)
  44. Question: Can Mary hear millions of prayers, spoken and thought, in different langauges, all over the world, simultaneously, and know the intentions of the hearts of those people so that she can then answer their prayers?
    1. Question: If Jesus has the divine nature, and the divine nature is triune, then did Mary give birth to the Father and the Holy Spirit?
    2. Ask my pastor to pray for me… Talking to pastor Joe is one on one. Not, Mary hear millions of prayers simultaneously. The prayers of the pastor were to God…
    3. A pastor can’t hear millions prayers that are thought all over the world.
    4. Is your prayer to Mary just a request for intercession? Yes.
    5. Ask for the intercession…… Mary can…how is she not a functional goddess?
      1. Functional goddess – not divine.
  45. Salvation (Back to Top)
  46. Quotes – From Orthodox Sources
  47. Justification
    1. At Baptism: “Justification is accomplished at baptism, the point where a person is granted forgiveness of sins and placed in a right relationship with God, and it is maintained through a life of obedience to God and confession of sins.… It is accomplished at baptism, the sacramental instrument by which sins are forgiven, and is maintained by confession of sins.” (https://orthodoxbridge.com/2015/02/09/what-do-orthodox-christians-believe-about-justification)
    2. Apart from works: “We come to Christ as sinners and are justified by faith apart from good works. But once we connect with Christ and enjoy a saving relationship with Him, we ought to honor Him with good works because we love Christ and also because our final judgment will hinge in part on the criterion of good deeds.” (https://www.goarch.org/-/how-are-we-saved-?)
  48. Salvation
    1. Loving deeds, baptism and Eucharist for salvation: “According to St. Paul, not only loving deeds but also the sacraments of Baptism (Rom 6:1-11) and the Eucharist (1 Cor 10:16-22; 11:23-32) are decisive to salvation.” (https://www.goarch.org/-/how-are-we-saved-?).
    2. Salvation is at baptism: “What is the event at which salvation truly takes hold? Baptism!” (https://www.goarch.org/-/how-are-we-saved-?)
    3. Renewal of salvation through works: “Orthodox Christians throughout their lives receive salvation and renewal through faith, works, and the sacraments of the Church.” (https://www.goarch.org/-/how-are-we-saved-?)
    4. Salvation can be lost: “…according to Paul, those who commit sinful acts and do not repent of them–and he names them: fornication, idolatry, sorcery, selfishness, drunkenness, carousing, and the like–“will not inherit the kingdom of God” (Gal 5:21; see also 1 Cor 6:9-11). In other words, those who do such things, including Christians to whom he is writing, will suffer ultimate loss of salvation.” (https://www.goarch.org/-/how-are-we-saved-?)
    5. Salvation is not at one time, but part of final judgment: “The reception of the gift of salvation is not a one-time event but a life-time process. St. Paul employs the verb “to save” (sozesthai) in the past tense (“we have been saved,” Rom 8:24; Eph 2:5); in the present tense (“we are being saved,” 1 Cor 1:18; 15:2), and in the future tense (“we will be saved,” Rom 5:10). He can think even of justification as a future event and part of the final judgment (Rom 2:13, 16).” (https://www.goarch.org/-/how-are-we-saved-?)
  49. Salvation Summary – As Stated by EO believers
    1. Adam lost the proper relationship with God through his sin. Jesus restored the ruptured relationship through His resurrection. Therefore, by participating in the energies of God (graces that lead to good works), you slowly become divinized (theosis), being made more like Jesus ontologically, and in this process become justified.
    2. We will participate in the energies of God that will deify us. It means becoming like God, identical to what God is, except in His essence. The identical things are things like immortality, glorified state, which is energized by what God is in His operations. He sustains us in our glorified condition. When Jesus became flesh, He deified his human flesh. The uncreated energy of light.
    3. God is working in and through you to do good works, which are perfecting your faith in God. These same works purify your faith and that purified faith then brings theosis and Christlikeness by which righteousness is obtained. It is the grace in true faith of orthodoxy that achieves theosis.
    4. Salvation is accomplished by living sacramentally, which means participating in the sacraments which are the vessels of divine grace. Sacraments are such things as Holy Mysteries are Baptism, Chrismation, Eucharist, Confession, and Unction (anointing for healing). The optional sacraments are Holy Matrimony (marriage) and Holy Orders (ordination).” These sacraments are ceremonies which are only valid in the EO church. Through the sacraments a person receives the energies of God that makes him more like Jesus which achieves the forgiveness of sin and makes you righteous in the eyes of God.
  50. Questions for the EO
    1. Good enough? Are you good enough to keep yourself saved?
    2. Repentance: If your salvation is dependent, in part, upon your ability to repent of your sins, what do you do with those since you have not repented of because you don’t know about them?
    3. Lose salvation? Sin is breaking the Law of God (1 John 3:4). Jesus bore our sins in his body (1 Pet. 2:24) and made a legal (Lawful, according to scripture) atoning sacrifice (John 19:30) where he canceled our sin debt (Col. 2:14). So, if every single sin and sin debt you’ve ever committed has been canceled, then how is it possible for you to lose your salvation since there are no sins left that can be held against you?
    4. Ask Jesus to forgive you: Would you pray and ask Jesus to forgive you of all of your sins and put all your trust and hope in Him alone? If you do, would you be forgiven of all your sins? If not, why won’t you pray and ask Jesus to forgive you of all your sins?
    5. Regarding how our sins are forgiven. Jesus is God in the flesh (John 1:1, 14; Colossians 2:9). Jesus has all authority in heaven and earth (Matthew 28:18). Jesus forgives sins (Luke 5:20; 7:48). Jesus tells us to pray to him (John 14:14). Questions about forgiveness. 1) If we pray to Jesus and ask him to forgive us of all of our sins, will he forgive us or will he withhold his forgiveness? 2) If he withholds his forgiveness, why would he do that if we are coming to him for forgiveness? 3) If all of our sins are forgiven, then why do we need a priest to forgive us of our sins? 4) Have you ever prayed to Jesus and asked him to forgive you of all your sins? If not, why not?

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