Go you Scotsmen, win this game (original) (raw)
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I said:
What a twat. I figure arguing with idiots is pointless. I had a lovely chat that got nowhere with a bunch of anti-gay marriage activists last week... Idiots. But, this is America, and everyone has a right to their own oppinion. Theirs is just closed-minded and prejudiced and based solely on their religious beliefs (Which have no place in the government {ie: Sep. Chrurch and State}, or did they forget?), but in America it's okay to be a hateful biggot if one so chooses.
People are so weird.
He said:
You are also a hateful biggot for saying that. Seperation from church and state means that the church does not run the government. e.g. you are not forced to give money to churches through taxation for a tithe. The difference is that morals and values do belong in the government, or else there is no reason for government. All government really is is a set of rules and laws, all rules and laws are based on morals and values, whatever they be. You appear to have a completely different standard, and hate people who disagree with you for it. Closed-minded to your ideas, and open-minded to their own, yes. You are closed-minded to their ideas and open to only those that you choose to accept. Marriage though, actually happens to be a religious concept. If you want seperation of church and state like you mean it, then we should not recognize marriage. Marriage being a religious thing actually has a very specific point and purpose to it. You accept marriage as a way of life, others accept marriage as something more, and you are destroying the value of what it is they believe marriage is. Unless you are religious, it seems difficult for me to believe that you have any grounds to make a judgement on the topic, but I don't know if you are religious or not, so I don't have grounds to say a whole lot about you in this situation myself.
I said:
By you making this kind of reply it would seem you have your own biases and prejudices as well. That, and you make judgements about those you do not know. Assuming by your argument you are probably religious, may I remind you "Though shalt not judge." Moving along, I do not hate people, but I do disapprove of the behavior that causes people to act in a negative, degrading, or exclusionary manner, so I would ask that you hold your tongue and not call me a biggot when I am not. While it's true we all have our own prejudices to some degree, I will not argue that I do show favoritism to gay couples over every single person trying to ban them from getting married.
While it is true that marriage can be a religious institution, the fact is that it isn't always and doesn't necissarily have to be. Many non-religious heterosexual couples get married and nobody seems to make a big deal about that. If you are going to exclude one group of people from something, you might as well exclude everybody who doesn't meet your standards. I personally want to marry the man I love someday. It's something I've dreamed about since I was a little kid. And no, I do not want it to necissarily be a big religious ordeal.
In regaurds to heterosexual marriage, what about Vegas? Many people run away to Vegas for a spontaneous wedding in a drive-through chappel without much regaurd for their religious views. Did you know that 52% of all heterosexual marriage ends in divorce? 52%. More than half. What ever happened to "Til death do us part?" Could it be that many straight couples actually take marriage for granted and make marriage a mistake in their own lives? Yes, it is possible. After all, we are all only human.
Moreover, if marriage were to be and only be a religious institution, then people from different religious, say a Catholic and a Jew, should not be allowed to marry. Personally, I think that this would be discrimination. My dad is Catholic. My mom is Mormon. I love them both very much. They have different views of the world, but they love each other, and their opposing views complement each other and help them gain a broader perspective on life. So I fully support inter-religious marriage. The same thing goes for inter-racial couples and gay couples. The fact is, if any two people love each other and want to make a lifelong commitment in front of God and everyone, why shouldn't they be allowed to? Don't think that I am closed-minded to all the 'Yes on 36' views. The truth is I have seen their perspective, and I truly believe with all my heart and all my sould that it is not only wrong but discriminitory and hateful.
Do not get me started on values. Values should not be a part of this debate because frankly, everyone has their own unique set of morals and values. What may be immoral to some (ie: homosexuality) makes perfect sense to others (ie: queers and allies). I believe in love. It's as simple as that. How dare you speak to me about immorality and values like mine aren't just as valid as yours. They are, deal with it. We are all equal. Some people may think they are better than others, they are wrong. Just as a side note, I am actually a religious person, but not in the same way as you. I believe in God and I believe he loves everyone the same. I do not believe that homosexuality is wrong, nor do I believe it is a sin. I believe that if I were to supress my sexuality which I did not choose and can't control, marry a woman, live a false life (a lie) and go to church every Sunday and become "the norm," I would be a hypocrite and I would be unhappy. God wants us to be happy. So live your own bloody life and let me live mine the way I want to. Someday, I will get married. It will not affect you in any way shape or form aside from your pride. But that's not my problem. If anybody has a problem with gay marriage, it is their own.
You need to remember that there are many kinds of people in this world and we should all be treated equally. Many cultures have been known to adopt habits, practices, and ways of life from other cultures. Live and let live. If homosexuals want to adopt the idea of marriage being feasable, instead of trying to condone them for it or keep them from doing it, you ought to be flattered that they have a desire to do this and accept that they want to live their lives the way they want.