Former 'Bachelorette' Charity Lawson Shares Her Thoughts On Matt James and Rachael Kirkconnell’s Breakup: “She's Going To Be So Grateful She Stepped Away” (original) (raw)
It’s no secret there’s a lot of Bachelor drama in the news right now. How is Charity Lawson coping?
“I’m actually starting adult ballet,” the former Bachelorette revealed to DECIDER. “I’m excited to learn in a non-competing element. I’m going to breathe.”
When asked her thoughts on the Matt James/Rachael Kirkconnell breakup, Lawson said the split was for the better. “It sounds like they were obviously on two separate pages,” she explained. “The saddest part is that I don’t know if they were ever on the same page to begin with.”
Meanwhile, Lawson’s own relationship is thriving. She is preparing for her upcoming wedding with Dotun Olubeko, who received her final rose on The Bachelorette. The couple took a break last year to slow things down but are now in full planning mode for the festivities. Lawson is ready to take the next step—as long as her 6′ 7″ fianceé learns how to master his photo angles before the ceremony.
Lawson chatted with Decider on all things Bachelor: first impressions of Grant Ellis’ season, thoughts on the recent Bachelor breakup, and why watching her own Bachelorette season back was challenging. Plus, the reality star gives insider details on her first time meeting fellow Dancing with the Starsalum Anna Delvey.
DECIDER: Did you watch the first episode of the new Bachelor season? What are your initial thoughts?
CHARITY LAWSON: I’m loving it so far. Obviously, it’s only been one episode, so I only got a glimpse of the girls. But I think the dynamic so far is a really healthy one. It kind of reminds me of Zach’s season, the season I was on, how we bonded with the girls. But watching [Grant’s season] at the end [of the first episode], I sensed a bit of drama coming. It’s not a Bachelor season without some sort of drama. I think Grant did really well. I’m liking his personality. I think it’s very reserved right now. I’m hoping we’re able to see a lot more. But for night one, it’s obviously such a whirlwind and there’s so much happening. I think he held his own pretty well.
It did definitely seem a bit calmer for night one.
For sure. Someone pointed out that there was no drama. I think we even had drama [on my season] the first night. That was probably the only time we had drama the whole season. But even for Grant, there was no significant, major thing that happened where they were like, “Oh, I don’t like this girl,” or “She did something crazy.” I really did appreciate that.
Everyone was so nice.
Which is rare, unfortunately.
Did any of the girls stand out to you?
I’m literally obsessed with Litia. There’s an energy and aura about her that’s so magnetic. And she’s just gorgeous. They’re all gorgeous. Juliana—I loved her. Sarafiena—I got told so many times that I’m apparently her twin. I was like, “Wait a minute. I see it. I totally see it.” I got tagged in so much. I was like, “What is happening?” She did great. I know Bailey was a bit polarizing for some people. She had Grant do the pictures outside of the limo, which I get, but some people were like, “Okay, put the phone down.” But I thought it was cute.
It’s her job! She works in social media.
Yeah, exactly. It’s very her.
**What did you think of the girl with the t-shirt cannon?**That was hilarious. I live for that. [Chloie] came in and wore the shirt. I was like, “That is such a power move.” I loved that. Most people are, of course, going to throw it away or act like it doesn’t exist. But the fact that she put it on, I was like, “Power move.”
What advice do you have for Grant?
He’s already filmed, but watching it back, it definitely takes a lot out of you. The best thing I can say is to not get too caught up. Watching it back is hard sometimes because you don’t really know what’s going to be shown. He obviously lived the real experience of what he remembers in real time. So that can probably be tricky, for the contestants as well, but specifically for him. Social media is a big part of it, the social media war. For me, it was really hard at times to see people have opinions of something. But then I knew that was totally different from what I experienced in real time and wanted to defend that. But [I would tell him to] be present as much as he can. Week by week, it goes by super fast. Just enjoy it and [don’t] get too caught up in the uproar.
I can imagine it must have been difficult watching your season back with your fiancee. How did you two navigate that?
It was crazy. That’s why I’m obviously so in love with Dotun. He just did a really good job of maintaining his character and also just being really confident and secure in himself and what we had and what we built while filming. That was such a breath of fresh air. He really was such a support for me because I think he knew, in hindsight, I was dealing with so much more. But at the same time, I also knew it’s probably equally hard or challenging for him watching this back. I definitely supported him in all the ways that I could. We both just leaned on each other, which was really, really helpful. But it did help that he just was not really bothered by it. He had challenging moments, but it never got to the point where it was something that became an argument.
It takes a secure man to be able to watch that.
He was really good, which was shocking, but also, I’m not surprised because I saw that throughout my season.
Photo: ABC/Craig Sjodin
How are things with you and Dotun? Any upcoming wedding plans?
Around Fashion Week last year, I kind of hinted that we were taking a little bit of a break, just to slow down. We have picked things back up, so things are moving along. Initially, we hit the ground running with wedding planning, which is why we were like, “Wait a second, we just want to enjoy this time and take a beat.” Coming into all of this, I really wanted a super huge wedding. The more that I have been with Dotun and chatted with friends and family, I really just want a small, intimate wedding. We’re doing two weddings still, which is probably more than most people would normally do. We’re saving his Nigerian cultural wedding for the big party where everyone will probably be there. But definitely for me, the traditional American white wedding, I definitely wanted it to be a lot more intimate and smaller. The guest list is dwindling down, but not in a bad way. We just want it to be really sacred and special to us. It’s something we can look forward to, for sure.
Do you have a date yet?
We do, but I’m not going to share. I know everyone wants that, but I’ll probably tease it closer to the time. I want it to be between us, super special. I just want a little surprise element to it. That’s the one thing I feel like I have control over, so I’m going to keep it for now.
One thing everyone seems to notice about Dotun is his height—6 foot 7! What’s the rose and thorn of having a fiance so much taller than you?
There are a lot of roses. I feel like there are not as many thorns as most people might think. The rose is that he’s a built-in step ladder or step stool. We just moved into our new apartment, and the cabinets are abnormally tall. I had to get a small step stool. I haven’t used it yet because I’m just like, “Dotun, come get this.” And he’s there. So that definitely helps. The thorn would probably be taking photos because I have to really master angles. It’s already hard by yourself to master good angles. Now, I have another factor to consider: the height difference. Or when we take selfies, it’s always him, and it just looks super long. I’m like, “I don’t know if I like this.” But we make it work. Whenever we run into people on the street and they’re like, “Oh my God, can we get a pic?” We’re like, “Dotun?” He has super long arms and he’s the only one that could probably get everybody in there.
You will master the angles by the time you need to take wedding photos.
That’s the one non-negotiable. Our wedding photographer has to understand the angles, the height, the poses. I remember when we took our engagement pictures for the first round, there was one that was a little hard for us to look back on because it just looked a little odd. He kind of looked like he was craning down, and then I was just underneath. It was a beautiful photo, don’t get me wrong, but maybe we can figure out how to navigate this angle a little bit better.
Photo: Getty Images
Speaking of photos, Matt James published a shocking Instagram post announcing his breakup with Rachael Kirkconnell. Rachael’s interview about it just dropped on Call Her Daddy. Any thoughts?
I didn’t fully listen to the entire interview she just did with Alex [Cooper]. But I did listen to a bunch of recaps and little segments here and there. It sounds like they were obviously on two separate pages. The saddest part is that I don’t know if they were ever on the same page to begin with. That’s what’s really hard. And I totally feel for Rachael. A lot of people are saying, “This reminds me of a former relationship that I was in,” and I definitely can relate. I’m wishing her all the love and support and strength. Like she said in the interview, there are some days that are good and some days that are bad. But I just know that six months down the road, she’s going to be so grateful that she stepped away from this or didn’t go back. It’s hard now—I can only imagine. But better things are going to come. When we are in these relationships, we might see certain signs—at least that’s something I learned when I left my previous relationship. Oftentimes, we do see them, but the hardest part of it is accepting and being willing to embrace change knowing, “Okay, this is a life that I envisioned with this person.” And she talked about that a lot. The hardest part is to accept that’s probably no longer the reality, and it sometimes [makes us] stay in situations longer than needed. But I’m just really happy that hopefully she finds her happiness elsewhere. I don’t know the full details of how it came to be, but it’s all around just really sad. Four years is a long time.
It was so shocking that they were posting together in Tokyo just hours before the breakup announcement. Do you think there was something going on behind the scenes that they were pushing down for a while?
For sure. In the interview, she talked about how they got in an argument about her not picking out the right restaurant. I feel like that’s so minimal. She probably had been doing that for some time. I don’t think that’s a healthy, loving relationship. And to some degree, I can see it as a little bit manipulative, or on his end, probably a little controlling. Again, I don’t know all the full details. But I just admire her strength and vulnerability to speak out on it.
She doesn’t have to speak out about it, yet she’s choosing to. Team Rachael! On a different note, the Dancing with the Stars tour just kicked off! Are you going to see it?
I know, I literally just missed them. They’re still on the East Coast region, so I’m hopeful to go and see them. I’ve been chatting with Ezra about it—I literally love him so much. I love the tour this year. I’ve seen clips on social media, and they’re crushing it. This entire season was just so good.
Do you still keep in touch with the pros?
More so Ezra because I danced with him for a little bit. And then, Emma and Britt, the girls, I’ve chatted with them. Brandon and his wife—love them. They’re just doing their thing and crushing it.
Photo: Eric McCandless/ DISNEY via Getty Images
I wish Anna Delvey was on tour! What were your thoughts of her on the show?
Every pairing this season was actually perfect. Every celeb got paired with the right pro, and Ezra probably was the only one that could handle her or maintain her personality. I actually met her when she and Ezra were here in New York. She was very normal. I didn’t sense anything that I saw while the show was airing. Her personality and how it comes off can potentially rub people the wrong way. But that’s just her sense of humor. You either align with it or you don’t. But she seems normal.
How did your experience on DWTS differ from The Bachelor ? Do you have a preference between the two?
It’s like day and night. Dancing with the Stars is definitely more physically demanding. When that plummets, the emotional and mental starts to get affected. It’s an incredible opportunity, once in a lifetime, so I’m grateful that I did it and got to train and learn ballroom. But it was hard. I’m not going to lie. I opened up about the backlash and things like that. That was really challenging for me. Bachelorette was more emotionally demanding because I was making the decision of “Okay, who’s going to be my potential future husband?” That was more draining, but physical [on _Dancing with the Stars_] was like no other. My body went through an incredible, crazy transformation, but then it started to affect other parts of [me]. I’m grateful that I did it at the end of the day and can always look back on that journey and see how I grew from it.
You’re going to have the best wedding dance. Are you still dancing at all?
I’m actually starting adult ballet. I’m really excited for that because I feel like ballet is really technical, and that’s the one thing I was really good at on Dancing with the Stars. I was still trying to get out of my comfort zone [on DWTS], but technicality, I was always proficient in. So I feel like when it comes to ballet, hopefully, I will excel there, but I know it’s going to be challenging. It’s going to be a hobby for me to do and learn something new. And then I’m also doing salsa classes. I did not learn salsa on Dancing with the Stars, so I’m excited to learn in a non-competing element. I’m going to breathe.
Would you ever return to reality TV?
I always say there’s only two other shows that I would probably ever see myself doing. The Masked Singer, which a lot of people don’t know. I can actually sing a little bit. I’m not Beyonce, obviously, but I can. I feel like that’s another show that would allow me to step out of my comfort zone. I like the fact that it’s not just so bold of, “Okay, you’re on a stage, you’re singing in front of a live crowd.” That would be terrifying. But the fact that you kind of embody a character—it’s anonymous. People have to figure out and discover based off of the little clues you give them. I like that part of it. So that would be really fun.
And then also The Traitors. I am obsessed with that show. I’m probably the number-one fan. I love Traitors so much. I would easily do that show if they asked me. Hopefully this doesn’t get back to me, but I feel like I would do [well] as a Traitor, which is crazy. I think it’s because people would not expect it. Initially, “Oh, Charity’s a good Faithful.” But I will say, I’m really good—maybe this is not good to say. But obviously, one: if there’s confrontation, I don’t like confrontation, but I will handle it. I’m good at throwing people off my scent. Easily, I would be so good as a Faithful as well. My ability to discern and pick up on people’s energy is really good. But watching this show and trying to put myself in the shoes of someone who’s a contestant on this show…I feel like it’s very hard for them. Watching it back and hearing their interviews, you hear them talk about how they feel so spot-on about someone and then they’re wrong, that would probably eat me up. If I were watching my interviews back and feeling super confident about someone and then realize they were unfaithful this whole time, or I’m not right, that would probably question, “Okay, is my intuition as good as I think it is?”
They have a pretty good track record of bringing Bachelor alum on Traitors , so I feel like you’re definitely up next. Any upcoming projects you can tease?
I do have a few. I won’t say specifically, but I can tease. Dotun and I are launching something super fun hopefully in the next few months. We’ve been working on it, so I won’t give too much away, but definitely something you’re going to want to be in tune for.
What are you currently streaming? Besides Traitors , of course.
Dotun and I have been into Tell Me Lies on Hulu. It’s a complex show. That’s the one we’ve been actively watching. We’ve been into movies a lot lately. Dotun is really into space, so Interstellar. It’s an older movie, but we literally just watched it on IMAX. We went to IMAX, because we had to see it in IMAX this past week. We are big Interstellar fans. We’ve been watching it for the last two, three weeks on repeat. It’s insane. And it’s not by choice…Dotun is obsessed with it. I can’t escape it, so by default, I’m also watching it.
Did you understand it?
I did not at first. But I think I was so intrigued by it, because I cried at the end of it. I’m a crier. I saw myself reflecting back and trying to figure out pieces of things that I didn’t understand. It really is a big think piece. It makes you think a lot about life, but also in a sci-fi way too, which is very interesting. I did not expect to be a lover of that movie, but here I am…probably at this point, [I’ve seen it] at least five [times].
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.