Anyone else here worried about xorg removal? (original) (raw)

I use an Nvidia GeForce RTX 4060Ti card and the removal of xorg in Fedora 41 is making me worried because wayland does not work with my GPU. Minecraft is flickering. Menus in some electron apps are glitching out. Nothing works as intended and that could make me stop using my computer.

barryascott (Barry A Scott) June 4, 2024, 8:26pm 2

But does it mean that i still can install xorg on 41 through Fedora Repositories or something like RPMFusion? Because libreoffice crashes when opening charts on wayland even with my intel iris laptop.

barryascott (Barry A Scott) June 4, 2024, 9:26pm 4

What I am saying is that wayland works well with nvidia on f40 already, but there are setting you should make to avoid some quirks.

Libreoffice works under wayland for me. We would need to collect info to understand why it breaks for you.

If you start libreoffice from a terminal do you see error messages?
Do you see error messages in dmesg?

It wants to recover the document after the crash and the terminal says “Unspecified Application Error” But dmesg outputs this: [ 0.000000] Linux version 6.8.11-300.fc40.x86_64 (mockbuild@f09cc32e12c24ed6a - Pastebin.com

barryascott (Barry A Scott) June 5, 2024, 6:59am 6

Dmesg is free of errors.

When you start libreoffice from a terminal what errors do you see?

augenauf (Flo) Tags updated June 5, 2024, 8:56am 7

tqcharm (Mike B.) June 5, 2024, 1:45pm 8

What you’re experiencing might have different causes, but I had a similar problem with gtk4 apps after upgrading to F40, and solved it by reverting from the ngl renderer to the old gl renderer. Thread here.

gw2007 (wesley field) June 6, 2024, 1:23pm 9

playonlinux wont go full screen when running hoyle old card games on Wayland.

These issues are hallmarks of behavior caused by lack of explicit sync support. Sometime soon, likely next month, NVIDIA will release a driver with explicit sync support on Wayland which should stop the flickering. The Beta driver that’s out now has solved the problem for a lot of people, though I haven’t personally tested it.

This particular flickering issue (and some related issues) will be fixed long before Fedora 41 is out.

If you’d like to learn more about this topic, see this great article by Xaver Hugl from KDE.

In summary:

With the explicit sync protocol being implemented in compositors and very soon in Xwayland and the proprietary NVidia driver, all those problems will finally be a thing of the past, and the biggest remaining blocker for NVidia users to switch to Wayland will be gone.

🤔 Wayland has been default for a while now, so what has changed?

The OP has never mentioned what he uses as a driver, so we don’t know if he is relying on nouveau or the nvidia driver. If he is using nvidia we also do not know from where or how it was installed (nor do we know what fedora version nor kernel is in use).

@vincentkanin
A distinct lack of detail in describing the issue that prompted the question.

jrelvas (José Relvas) June 6, 2024, 3:01pm 13

Assuming OP is on the nvidia proprietary driver, then the “flickering”/“visual glitches” they’ve described are probably synchronization issues which should be fixed with nvidia 555 (currently a beta release - you can test it!).

Nevertheless, nvidia’s lack of progress shouldn’t be a reason for not going forward with the x11 session’s deprecation. F40 will be supported and receive updates during the next 12 months. That’s a long deadline, one which nvidia can meet.

tankist02 (Andrew Terekhov) June 6, 2024, 4:49pm 14

I’m worried too. I find Gnome deficient for my needs, so I run XFCE. It does not (yet?) support Wayland, so if next Fedora is Wayland only I’ll have to find another distro.

jrelvas (José Relvas) June 6, 2024, 4:58pm 15

The proposed change to drop the X11 session only affects Fedora Workstation (GNOME). Other spins which still have X11 sessions are not affected.

Also, this only removes it from the default installation. The X11 session can still be manually installed by the user, and unlike the KDE spin, it’s still officially supported.

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/WaylandOnlyGNOMEWorkstationMedia

mattdm (Matthew Miller) June 6, 2024, 5:10pm 16

You can still enable an Xorg session, and will be able to for a while. The big change current and upcoming changes are mostly about how we present the option (or not). It just isn’t our recommended or default option, and won’t get the same level of testing or maintenance.

To be clear: we’re making these moves because Wayland is where the development is. X11 will not continue to be a viable option on any distro. If you have older hardware that does not work well with Wayland, your best bet is a no-cost individual RHEL subscription.[1] RHEL 9 includes X11 support and will continue to get updates through 2032.

  1. disclaimer: I work for Red Hat. However, this isn’t meant to be a shill for the company product. It’s hands-down the best long-term Linux option. ↩︎

But i can’t use RHEL as i won’t use a closed source distro. When is nvidia 555 coming to rpmfusion?

barryascott (Barry A Scott) June 10, 2024, 3:42pm 18

Once you have a personal, free, RHEL license you can get the SRPMs for the version you are running. As such it’s not closed source, as I understand it.

The problem is that RHEL ships with kernel 5.14 but i need the latest kernel.

vekruse (Villy Kruse) June 10, 2024, 6:52pm 20

Isn’t Redhat going to maintain Xorg while there are still RHEL releases which shipped with Xorg and which are not EOL yet?