Minutes of RDFcore telecon 2003-05-16 from Graham Klyne on 2003-05-17 (w3c-rdfcore-wg@w3.org from May 2003) (original) (raw)

Time: 10:00:00 Fri May 16 2003 in America/New York duration 120 minutes

which is equivalent to 15:00:00 Fri May 16 2003 in Europe/London

Phone: +1-617-761-6200 (Zakim)#7332 irc: irc.w3.org #rdfcore

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003May/0183.html IRC log: http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfcore/2003-05-16

(Copy of my IRC log attached for W3 archive)

Summary of decisions:

RESOLVED: we accept comment pfps-08, and 3.4 in the semantics editors draft addresses it. RESOLVED: we accept comment pfps-01, and that it is addressed by the revised text in the semantics editor's draft. RESOLVED: to not accept comment pfps-03 RESOLVED: we accept comment pfps-05, and it is addressed by by rule rdfs1 in section 4.2 of the Semantics editor's draft RESOLVED: to accept comment timbl-03 and remove requirement for List element type triples to be generated by RDF parsers RESOLVED: do not accept xmlsch-05 RESOLVED: to accept xmlsch-06, with revised wording as noted

Summary of actions:

(Note: some actions were inferred, and are marked [[[to be confirmed]]])

PatH respond to Peter regarding pfps-08 resolution PatH respond to Peter regarding pfps-01 resolution PatH respond to Peter regarding pfps-03 resolution PatH [[[to be confirmed]]] respond to Peter regarding pfps-05 resolution daveb respond to commenter regarding timbl-03 decision daveb apprise webont of timbl-03 decision daveb update syntax document in light of timbl-03 decision daveb update test cases in light of timbl-03 decision frankM update primer in light of timbl-03 decision bwm review schema document for changes in light of timbl-03 decision PatH [[[to be confirmed]]] check for changes to Semantics in light of timbl-03 decision jjc respond to commenter regarding xmlsch-05 decision jjc [[[to be confirmed]]] update conepts document per xmlsch-06 decision jjc [[[to be confirmed]]] respond to commenter

--swebscrape: date:2003-05-16

1: scribe: Jan being unavailable - GK scribes

2: Roll Call

Present: Brian McBride Dave Beckett Pat Hayes Graham Klyne, Jeremy Carroll Frank Manola Mike Dean

Guest: Joseph Reagle (for agendum 3)

Regrets: Patrick Stickler Jos de Roo

3: Update on embedding RDF in XML

Joseph Reagle summarized efforts to create a task force to discuss the matter of embedding RDF in XHTML. See IRC log for detailed comments: http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfcore/2003-05-16#T14-08-53

In summary, initial goal to to scope the problem, gather initial reqirements, determine if the problem is realistically solvable and establish communications between metadata and hypertext communities. Expect some initial sense of tractability of the problem with a month or so.

Draft charter for the task force: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-semweb-cg/2003May/0040.html

esw wiki on this stuff: http://esw.w3.org/topic/EmbeddingRDFinHTML

We thank Joseph for apprising us of this planned activity.

4: Review Agenda

No changes.

5: Next telecon 30 May 2003 1000 Boston Time

[[[Did we get a voluteer scribe? If so, I missed it - GK]]]

6: Minutes of 09 May 2003 telecon

See: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003May/0138.html

No comments.

7: Confirm Status of Completed Actions

Per agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003May/0183.html

All accepted.

8: Issue pfps-08

See: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/20030123-issues/#pfps-08

Proposal as in: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003May/0181.html

Propose: that we accept the comment, and 3.4 in the semantics editors draft addresses it. http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/TR/WD-rdf-mt-20030117/#dtype_interp Jeremy has reviewed the test and agrees.

Proposed PatH, seconded: JJC [[[?]]] None against, none abstrain.

RESOLVED: we accept comment pfps-08, and 3.4 in the semantics editors draft addresses it.

ACTION: PatH respond to Peter regarding pfps-08 resolution

9: Issue pfps-01

See: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/20030123-issues/#pfps-01

Per Pat's message http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003May/0162.html

Propose:

• accept
• note that it has been addressed by the following text (between -) in the editors draft: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/TR/WD-rdf-mt-20030117/#dtype_interp [[ The datatype map which also contains the set of all pairs of the form <http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema#sss , sss>, where sss is a built-in datatype which has well-defined lexical and value spaces and a lexical-to-value mapping and is named sss in XML Schema Part 2: Datatypes [XML-SCHEMA2], eg decimal, string, is referred to here as XSD. ]]

Also, some suggested editorial changes to this per: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003May/0175.html

Proposed: path, as above, with editorial discretion regarding changes Seconded: ?

RESOLVED: we accept comment pfps-01, and that it is addressed by the revised text in the semantics editor's draft

ACTION: PatH respond to Peter regarding pfps-01 resolution

10: issue pfps-03 LBase appendix is pointless

See: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/20030123-issues/#pfps-03

Per Pat's message http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003May/0162.html

Propose:

• not accept
• note that the purpose of the appendix is informative (for a certain class of readers) rather than definitive.
• note that document states: [[ "The editor believes that both of these descriptions, and also the closure rules described in section 4, are all in exact correspondence, but only the directly described model theory in sections 1- 3 should be taken as normative." ]]

It was also noted that even for DAML, the axiomatic semantics were most commonly cited: people do find these easier to understand.

Pat proposes, DaveB seconds None against, none abstain

RESOLVED: to not accept comment pfps-03 ACTION: PatH respond to Peter regarding pfps-03 resolution

11: Issue pfps-05 RDFS closure rules

See: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/20030123-issues/#pfps-05

Per Pat's message http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003May/0162.html

and Graham's additions: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003May/0175.html

Propose

• accept it
• addressed by rule rdfs1 in section 4.2 of the editor's draft http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/TR/WD-rdf-mt-20030117/#dtype_interp so that using rdfs1 + rdfs3 + rdfs7a + rdfs9

rdfs:subClassOf rdfs:range rdfs:Class .       (sect 3.3 axiom)
rdf:XMLLiteral rdfs:subClassOf rdfs:Literal . (sect 3.3 axiom)

gives: rdfs:Literal rdf:type rdfs:Class . (by rdfs3) gives: rdfs:Literal rdfs:subClassOf rdfs:Resource . (by rdfs7a)

then, from rdfs1, we have: _:nnn rdf:type rdfs:Literal hence: _:nnn rdf:type rdfs:Resource (by rdfs9)

Proposed, as above: PatH, seconded: GK None against, none abstain

RESOLVED: we accept comment pfps-05, and it is addressed by by rule rdfs1 in section 4.2 of the Semantics editor's draft ACTION: PatH [[[to be confirmed]]] respond to Peter regarding pfps-05 resolution

12: Issue timbl-03

See: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/20030123-issues/#timbl-03

The response from WebOnt indicated no clear technical problem with removal of List type triples, but a preference to leave them in.

Discussion - see: http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfcore/2003-05-16#T14-41-24

A first straw poll was evenly divided.

After further discussion, a second straw poll was somewhat in favout of removing the extra triples.

Proposed: to accept comment timbl-03 Proposed PatH, seconded: GK For: PatH, GK, FrankM; against: none; abstain: jjc, daveb, miked

RESOLVED: to accept comment timbl-03 and remove requirement for List element type triples to be generated by RDF parsers ACTION: daveb respond to commenter regarding timbl-03 decision ACTION: daveb apprise webont of timbl-03 decision ACTION: daveb update syntax document in light of timbl-03 decision ACTION: daveb update test cases in light of timbl-03 decision ACTION: frankM update primer in light of timbl-03 decision ACTION: bwm review schema document for changes in light of timbl-03 decision ACTION: PatH [[[to be confirmed]]] check for changes to Semantics in light of timbl-03 decision

13: Issue xmlsch-05 Character Sequences

See: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/20030123-issues/#xmlsch-05

Per Jeremy's message: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003May/0151.html

PROPOSE: to not accept this comment. Rationale: It feels like a fairly extensive editorial change. Also in the semantic web activity documents xsd:string is always refered to in its qualified form, and so the possible confusion is diminsihed.

Proposed: jjc, seconded: daveb, as above None against, none abstain

RESOLVED: do not accept xmlsch-05 ACTION: jjc respond to commenter regarding xmlsch-05 decision

14: Issue xmlsch-06 natural language data

See: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/20030123-issues/#xmlsch-06

Per Jeremy's message http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003May/0151.html

Discussion: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003Apr/0216.html

PROPOSE to accept; with rewording like this: [[ A plain literal is a string combined with an optional language identifier. This may be used for plain text in a natural language. As recommended in the RDF formal semantics [RDF-SEMANTICS], these plain literals are self-denoting. ]]

Proposed: jjc, seconded daveb None against, none abstain

RESOLVED: to accept xmlsch-06, with revised wording as noted ACTION: jjc [[[to be confirmed]]] update conepts document per xmlsch-06 decision ACTION: jjc [[[to be confirmed]]] respond to commenter

Meeting closed.

There was some "after hours" discussion of Peter Patel-Schneider's observation of non- monotonicity in datatyped interpretations. See: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003May/0187.html and subsequent thread.

--swebscrape: swebscrape:N3:python: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/scripts/minutes2n3.py

Graham Klyne <GK@NineByNine.org> PGP: 0FAA 69FF C083 000B A2E9 A131 01B9 1C7A DBCA CB5E

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Received on Saturday, 17 May 2003 04:21:20 UTC