INDUSTRIAL HISTORY - Record Collector Magazine (original) (raw)

T he industrial genre thrives on dischord and non-musicianship, sharing many elements with the punk and DIY movements, yet its experimental and often rhythmic cadence has subtly influenced and affected many strands of modern music over the past 40 or more years. Stadium acts like Nine Inch Nails, Marilyn Manson and Ministry all owe a significant debt to the industrial music pioneers, while Lethal Gristle in their workwear dubstep, gabba and some strands of techno have utilised recording, sampling and production techniques first developed by industrial bands.

Wilful, obtuse and often confrontational, the industrial scene would barely be considered music at all in some quarters. You can forget all that verse/chorus/middle-eight/fade nonsense beloved of so many musicians. Industrial music might employ anything and everything from electronica, tape loops, treated guitars and field recordings to radio and TV samples, scaffolding poles, white noise and silence.

Its subject matter often veers towards controversy, with disturbing themes such as genocide, rape, incest, child abuse, self-immolation, the occult, disease and disfigurement. And if you are upsetting politicians, you must be doing something right. In 1976, genre darlings Throbbing Gristle raised the ire of Conservative politician Nicholas Fairbairn who blasted the group as “wreckers of civilization… here to destroy the morality of our society” and bemoaning the band’s receipt of Arts Council grants earlier in their career, when they operated as COUM Transmissions.

In the live arena, industrial bands have employed disconcertingly high levels of noise, subsonic pulses, fit-inducing strobes, autopsy films, power tools and a plethora of other devices to entertain their audiences, often employing performance art and installations into their shows. And because of the potential for shock-horror in the performance, unusual venues were often used for gigs – arts centres, derelict factories, even caves became venues, rather than the more typical pubs, clubs and civic halls.

If the sound of Daleks playing with circular saws as they’re fed into a car crusher intrigues, then onwards; together we’ll discover the delights of the industrial scene.

THE FOUNDERS

William S Burroughs is often seen as the spiritual Godfather of the industrial music scene, though the influential cut-up composition style he was credited with developing, alongside poet and artist Brion Gysin, can actually be traced back to Tristan Tzara and the Dadaists in the 20s. Burroughs’ written work certainly influenced industrial, however, and he appeared on numerous recordings in the genre, including an early single on the Industrial label.

Brion Gysin is also a noted influence, using the cut-up technique and a random-sequence generator from an early computer programme to produce what he called “permutation poems”. He experimented with tape-splicing techniques, notably on Pistol Poem which used the sounds of gun fire recorded at different amplitudes in the BBC Radiophonic Workshop.

US artist, composer and music theorist John Cage conducted avant-garde experiments with timings and indeterminacy, and had a capricious approach to how musical instruments might be played. While his work in the field of “noise music” certainly influenced the industrial scene, ironically today he is best remembered for his 1952 composition 4’33”, a piece performed without sound but not in silence as is typically thought. The composition actually is meant to include any sounds heard by the audience during its four minutes and 33 seconds’ duration, with the musicians having to do no more than be present during its performance.

La Monte Young’s mid-60s musical group Theatre Of Eternal Music (later known as The Dream Syndicate) carried the flame lit by Cage’s work, focusing on experimental drone music, a style often used in industrial. A young John Cale was amongst the ranks of band members prior to his joining The Velvet Underground. The group was linked to the 60s Fluxus movement, an international network of artists, composers and designers who espoused anti-art/commercial aesthetics by blending different media and disciplines (Yoko Ono being perhaps the most notable artist involved with Fluxus events).

Sonically, industrial bands riffed on a number of musicians including Zappa, Beefheart, Kraftwerk, Velvet Underground, Lou Reed’s Metal Machine Music, the BBC Radiophonic Workshop and improvisational 60s band AMM. Krautrock was certainly influential, with Kluster arguably setting the template followed by many industrial bands in the use of unorthodox instruments and electronica. Faust were also influential in their use of scrap metal and discarded auto parts to create complex rhythms, a method later explored by Test Dept and Einstürzende Neubauten. Bands have taken elements of heavy metal, spoken word, folk, dance beats and world music into the genre.

THE CAPTAINS OF INDUSTRY

Industrial music as a genre was effectively born in the mid-1970s with the founding of Industrial Records by Genesis P-Orridge of Throbbing Gristle and Monte Cazazza, a San Franciscan performance artist, whose work was described as having “a potentially dangerous and antisocial aesthetic”. It was Cazazza who apparently coined the phrase “Industrial Music for Industrial People”, which became the working slogan for the label. It released work by Throbbing Gristle (the name being Northern slang for an erect penis), Clock DVA, The Leather Nun, as well as Cazazza himself and spoken-word work by William S Burroughs. Throbbing Gristle evolved from the early 70s performance art group COUM Transmissions, featuring Genesis P-Orridge and Cosey Fanni Tutti, who were joined by Chris Carter and Peter Christopherson. Using pre-recorded tape samples, live instruments and electronica, TG delivered multi-layered, often highly distorted, soundscapes as backdrops for lyrics, poems and spoken-word pieces performed by Genesis and Cosey.

Aligned to the burgeoning punk movement, the band’s debut single, United/Zyklon B Zombie was released in 1977, with the album The Second Annual Report following soon after, both on their Industrial Records label. The Second Annual Report was later reissued on Mute but with all tracks playing backwards and in reverse order. Over the following four years, the band released a series of albums, tapes and singles including the highly praised 20 Jazz Funk Greats and the spoof pop single I Confess/Softness by Dorothy (Dorothy Max Prior), aided and abetted by Genesis and Alex Ferguson of Alternative TV.

After TG’s demise, P-Orridge and Christopherson formed Psychic TV with Alex Fergusson, while Cosey Fanni Tutti and Carter recorded under the names of Chris & Cosey, Carter Tutti and Creative Technology Institute. Christopherson later established Coil with his partner and fellow Psychic TV member, John Balance.

Cazazza, meanwhile, featured on the bizarre single To Mom On Mother’s Day, a limited run of 2,000 on Industrial Records in 1979, followed by the Something For Nobody EP a year later, featuring a Brion Gysin poem and electronics by Chris Carter.

MB (Maurizio Bianchi) from Milan, Italy, used a range of electronic treatments and pre-recorded filtered sounds to create pastoral soundscapes and orchestrally influenced passages. As he put it himself, he was striving to “produce technological sounds to work for a full awareness of modern decadence”. Incredibly prolific during the early 80s, much of his work was self-released on very limited cassettes which today are exceptionally valuable. His 1981 Symphony For A Genocide on Nigel Ayers’ Sterile label is also desired by collectors, selling for more than £300. The following year saw the release of Leibstandarte – Triumph Of The Will, a joint project with Steven Stapleton (Nurse With Wound) that caused controversy over the use of Hitler’s speeches within the piece (allegedly done without MB’s consent or knowledge).

Other artists were treading a similar path to the one TG and Cazazza were exploring in the mid-70s, notably Sheffield’s Cabaret Voltaire, Sweden’s Leather Nun and Boyd Rice/Non from the US, all of whom had material released on Industrial.

Cabaret Voltaire, named after a Zürich nightclub which had been a focus for the early Dada movement, formed in Sheffield in 1973 and experimented widely, using synths and home-cooked electronica. Some of these early experiments were documented on the cassette 1974-1976 (released in 1980), while the band issued a number of critically acclaimed releases on Rough Trade, including Nag Nag Nag, the EP, Extended Play, The Voice Of America and Red Mecca.

The Sheffield scene also nurtured Clock DVA, The Human League, whose earliest recordings released on Fast Product certainly fitted the industrial template, and associated bands BEF (British Electric Foundation) and Heaven 17.

Boyd Rice is perhaps best described as a performance artist who has been lumped in with the industrial movement simply because of his association with Throbbing Gristle. His recorded works dating from the mid-70s, some issued under the nom de plume of Non, started with sonic experiments using tape loops and progressed to altering the medium of vinyl itself. He had additional holes punched in singles to deliver “multi-axial rotation”, while he encouraged listeners to play one LP at whatever speed they preferred. He used locked grooves that allowed listeners to create their own music and was an early experimenter with scratching techniques and turntable skills. Original copies of his 1977 LP, often called The Black Album, are typically valued in excess of £500.

Swedish act Leather Nun were signed to Industrial in 1978 and were the first non-TG/Cazazza release on the label. The magnum opus Slow Death originally appeared on an Industrial Records single, before a 1983 re-release on Criminal Damage and another in 1986 on Wire. With a shift to a more polished rock sound, the band latterly achieved some success and significant airplay on college radio in the US, arguably paving the way for later industrial-arena acts such as Marilyn Manson, Ministry and NiN.

Though not typically associated with industrial music due to his work in electronica and pop, Daniel Miller is a pivotal figure in the scene. Recording as The Normal, he released the classic single TVOD/Warm Leatherette (the latter loosely based on JG Ballard’s novel Crash and later covered by Grace Jones) on his own label Mute, via Rough Trade, in 1978. He also worked with Robert Rental and Thomas Leer, who had appeared on Industrial Records with the album, The Bridge. Mute went on to worldwide success with Depeche Mode and Yazoo, but also continued to release edgier material by Boyd Rice, Throbbing Gristle, DAF and Fad Gadget.

INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION

A further wave of industrial performers was ready to make a mark in the late 70s and early 80s. Nurse With Wound was formed in 1978 by Stephen Stapleton, with John Fothergill and Heman Pathak, heavily influenced by free improv and Krautrock. The band soon became a solo vehicle for Stapleton and, whilst pigeon-holed as industrial music, his delight in the absurd and surrealist humour has taken in a wide range of styles from cabaret to ambient. He is responsible for the majority of artwork on the album sleeves too, created under the pseudonym Babs Santini, and copies with original signed art are highly prized. The band’s first LP on United Dairies – Chance Meeting On A Dissecting Table Of A Sewing Machine And An Umbrella – is a steady seller, going for between £200 and £300.

Nocturnal Emissions featured Nigel Ayers and the late Caroline K and were described as a post-industrial band despite having roots in the late 70s. The pair founded Sterile Records – a tape and vinyl label focused on the industrial, arty, noise end of the spectrum that took inspiration from the French musique concrète movement, Fluxus, conceptual art and the spontaneity and energy of punk. Sterile documented many of the industrial bands of the era as well as releasing numerous examples of Nocturnal Emissions’ work and early examples of the label’s output make substantial values.

SPK (sometimes known as Sozialistisches Patienten Kollektiv or Surgical Penis Klinik among many other pseudonyms) were an Australian post-punk and entertainment-through-pain unit founded by Graham Revell in the late 70s in Sydney. The band’s first three Australian singles were pressed in pitifully small numbers and are now exceptionally valuable, easily making four figures when they reach the market. Early vinyl and cassette albums on Side Effects and Viva are also much sought-after as is the 1980 single Meat Processing Unit on Industrial Records. In 1983 the band grazed the UK singles chart with the Metal Dance single with Revell’s wife Sinan Leong on lead vocals – unsurprisingly, this has the lowest value and is the least representative example of their work. Over recent years, Revell has written a significant number of sci-fi and horror film scores.

Lustmørd were another early Sterile band. Essentially a solo project from Brian Williams who had worked with SPK in the early 80s, Lustmørd used ultra-low frequencies and acoustic phenomena to create eerie soundscapes. Williams experimented with infrasound – frequencies below 20hz, said to cause vomiting or even permanent hearing loss – as well as field recordings made in crypts, caves, and slaughterhouses, combined with ritualistic incantations and Tibetan horns.

Whitehouse – apparently named both after the 70s porn magazine and in homage to the campaigner, Mary – developed a style of brutal and extreme music that was dubbed “power electronics”. Lyrical content was equally extreme, covering sadism, rape, child abuse and murder. Effectively the brainchild of William Bennett, former guitarist with Essential Logic, the ever-evolving line-up also included Nurse With Wound’s Stapleton, Kevin Tomkins (Sutcliffe Jügend) and Andrew M McKenzie (The Hafler Trio) at various times, as well as controversial writer Peter Sotos. Early material was released in relatively limited numbers on the Come Organisation label and is highly collectable – and valuable – today.

Though the band cut its teeth with experimental electronica and tape loops, Clock DVA incorporated elements of funk and dance into their sound, dabbling in soundtracks for unfinished or unmade films and shoehorning musique concrete into the standard rock format. Founded by Adi Newton and Judd Turner in Sheffield in 1978 the band was linked with both Cabaret Voltaire and Heaven 17’s Marsh and Ware. Early material was self-released on cassettes (which are difficult to track down), then the cassette album White Souls In Black Suits was issued by Industrial (with a later vinyl release in Italy). The band’s first vinyl release proper, Thirst, on Fetish was a big seller, reaching the top of the indie charts in 1981.

Formed in 1979 by Fritz Catlin, Johnny Turnbull and Sam Mills (with Johnny’s brother Alex latterly joining), 23 Skidoo boast great industrial credentials with early vinyl produced by the Cabs and Throbbing Gristle’s P-Orridge and Christopherson. However, the band leavened their industrial sound with dance and funk and strains of world music, performing at the very first Womad Festival in 1982. The TG-produced Seven Songs (Fetish) went to the top of the independent charts, though follow-up Tearing Up The Plans caused a rift in the band as it was taped without the Turnbulls. By the mid-80s, the band were recording with genuine pop stars like former Linx bassist Peter ‘Sketch’ Martin and Aswad’s horn section on the indie hits Coup and Language.

Death In June formed in 1981, featuring Douglas Pearce and Tony Wakeford, formerly of agit-punk band Crisis, with drummer Patrick Leagas. They courted controversy by using themes and imagery associated with Nazi Germany, though Pearce and Wakeford’s credentials included performing at Rock Against Racism and Anti-Nazi League rallies in the late 70s. The band’s early industrial-based sound soon shifted to a more acoustic and folk style, dubbed neo-folk, after the departure of Leagas and Wakeford, leaving Pearce as the sole contributing member. Early releases The Guilty Have No Pride and Burial are desirable on the original indie labels, but there is steady demand across their catalogue.

Wakeford went on to found Sol Invictus in 1987 with Ian Read and, for a short period, Karl Blake of Lemon Kittens and Shock Headed Peters. The band utilised a mix of acoustic and electronic sounds to create dramatic soundscapes which railed against the decadence of modern society.

In 1991, Read left to form neo-folkists Fire + Ice, while Wakeford focused Sol Invictus on a darker folk sound. The band famously staged a concert at Chislehurst Caves with Current 93 on 3 March 1990, handing out a package of ticket, free single and insert to the 93 lucky attendees. The single – The Summer Of Love (Live in Japan)/Abbatoirs Of Love – is now worth around £150 as a complete package, with the single on its own valued at about £50.

Current 93 was the work of David Tibet (David Michael Bunting), a former member of Psychic TV and 23 Skidoo who began releasing material in 1982. Mainman Tibet has been joined by Steven Stapleton, John Balance, Boyd Rice and 23 Skidoo’s Catlin at one time or another – as has Steve Ignorant of Crass.

In turn, Tibet has been part of or worked with numerous industrial genre bands, including Nurse with Wound, Death in June and Coil. Early material focused on the ritualistic noisy end of the spectrum, with later releases described as “apocalyptic folk”, including 1988’s Swastikas For Noddy (possibly the best music title ever to reference Enid Blyton’s little do-gooder).

Lemon Kittens were founded in Reading, Berkshire, in the late 1970s by Karl Blake, who recruited Danielle Dax by placing an ad in the September 1979 issue of Throbbing Gristle fanzine Industrial News – she initially provided artwork and then later become a full partner in the band. Following a well-received EP on Step Forward (Spoonfed And Writhing, 1979), the pair released We Buy A Hammer For Daddy (United Dairies, 1980) – one of the most startlingly original LPs of the DIY industrial era, described by some as John Cage-meets- The Krankies on bad LSD. The obvious lack of musical technique is more than equalled by those often forgotten ingredients, ideas and originality, while the title was filched from a deaf language manual for children. Also look out for the Cake Beast 12” (on United Dairies, 1981) and the Big Dentist LP on Illuminated (1983).

Australian Jim Thirlwell’s multi-faceted music project Foetus employed a constantly changing approach to both personnel and band names. He first recorded with lo-fi synth-pop group pragVEC before establishing his own label – Self Immolation in 1981 – and releasing a string of collectable vinyl as You’ve Got Foetus On Your Breath and Foetus Over ’Frisco, and later recording for Some Bizarre.

John Balance formed Coil in 1982 as a solo side project to Psychic TV, but it developed into a full-time group by ’84, when he was joined by his partner, Peter ‘Sleazy’ Christopherson (PTV/Gristle). One of very few bands to feature an openly gay couple, Coil’s first release – How To Destroy Angels (1984) – was a 17-minute piece described as “ritual music for the accumulation of male sexual energy”.

Coil made music that focused on the more scabrous aspects of life and today are considered one of the most important and cutting-edge industrial and experimental bands. Coil ceased working following Balance’s death after an accident at home in 2004. Christopherson passed away in 2010.

CONSTRUCTION TIME AGAIN

The 80s saw a new strain of industrial music emerge, as the metal-bangers made their mark. However, as is often the case, the true pioneers tend to be overlooked. Drummer and percussionist Z’EV studied drumming with Arnie Frank, Chuck Flores and Art Anton at Drum City in Van Nuys, California from the late 50s to the mid-60s. In the following years he developed an idiosyncratic percussion technique using instruments made from industrial materials such as stainless steel, titanium, and PVC, with a playing style likened to a marionette. Late in 1980, Z’EV opened a series of UK and European concerts for Bauhaus, followed by a solo European tour, introducing his metal-based percussion to new audiences just as two significant bands were forming in Berlin and London.

Einstürzende Neubauten (Collapsing New Buildings), originally from West Berlin, formed in 1980. Using custom-built instruments, typically scrap metal and building tools, alongside noise generators and standard musical instruments, Einstürzende took the physical element of music-making to extreme levels. One example of their art, Durstiges Tier featured lead singer Blixa Bargeld being repeatedly punched in the stomach to get the required sound. In 1983, Bargeld briefly joined The Birthday Party, and went on to Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds. Bargeld remained a full-time member of both Einstürzende and The Bad Seeds, until 2003, quitting to focus on his own work. EN continues to this day but the metal-clanging of old has become a more complex and experimental sound. Test Dept, from London’s New Cross, are considered one of the most important and influential early industrial acts. Like Neubaten, Test Dept utilised scrap metal and machinery, but in a more rhythmic, traditional way than the Berliners. They staged shows at Waterloo station, Stirling Castle and the disused St Rollox Railway Works in Glasgow – the band quite literally “playing” the building – and incorporated film and slide shows into their events. Strong political beliefs led to a collaboration with the South Wales Striking Miners Choir in support of the miners’ strike of 1984 and cemented the band as critical darlings. The band’s political stance was energised by the passing of the Criminal Justice And Public Order Act 1994, as their music took on a more techno flavour.

ASSOCIATED COMPANIES

Although not strictly industrial music, some punk and post-punk era artists were developing similar styles in parallel to the burgeoning industrial music scene. Cleveland’s Pere Ubu used field recordings, musique concrete and noise generators on their 1978 debut, The Modern Dance, with synth player Allen Ravenstine coaxing a wonderful array of cinematic effects and sci-fi sounds from his machines. They often similar lyrical reference points to industrial acts (although 1976 single Final Solution was nothing to do with the holocaust).

San Francisco’s Chrome combined guitar histrionics with tape loops and synthesised noise, and the band has been cited as a forerunner of industrial rock music. The band’s 1978 masterpiece, Alien Soundtracks, employed cut-up, collage techniques and heavily processed sound in a similar style to the industrial pioneers of the UK.

Though more strictly electronica, Suicide’s albums of the late 70s and early 80s are seen as a huge influence on the scene, while Killing Joke, arguably the heaviest of the post-punk bands, established the template for industrial rock in the years to come.

THE POST-INDUSTRIALISTS

It had to happen: eventually a more palatable, arena-friendly strain of industrial music cleaned up in arenas in the US and Europe. Nine Inch Nails was founded in Cleveland, Ohio in 1988 by Trent Reznor, the only official member of the band, producing, writing, singing and generally setting the direction of travel. Their music makes plentiful use of electronic sounds, field recordings and sound-processing.

Founded in 1982 by singer, songwriter and multi-instrumentalist Michael Gira, Swans, from NYC, used sonic assault and extreme volume to pummel their audiences into submission, with some gig-goers becoming ill, causing shows to be cancelled and venues shut. Their punishing, brutal music mellowed over time, particularly when female singer Jarboe took the lead and Swans can rightfully claim to have influenced a broad swathe of bands and genres in the intervening years. The band split in 1997, reforming in 2010 under Gira’s leadership.

Canadian band Skinny Puppy ploughed a similar furrow to NIN, (some say Reznor was listening a little too closely) riffing on many of the earlier industrial bands to create a dark motorik sound, driven by pulsing electronics, samples and threatening vocals. Founded in 1982, they released their first EP Remission in 1984, followed by the album Bites a year later and won a fanbase in Europe with releases on Belgium’s Play It Again Sam. They folded in 1995, but reformed in the 00s and issue material today.

Though more rock than industrial, Marilyn Manson employed many of the shock tactics of his industrial forebears, wrapped in Alice Cooper-style showmanship and heavy guitars and electronics. Hailing from Fort Lauderdale, Florida, his band issued a limited cassette (Refrigerator) in 1993, then promptly signed to MCA/Interscope and went global, selling 50 million-plus albums. Antichrist Superstar in 1996 was called “vile, ateful, nihilistic and damaging” by US Senator Joe Lieberman – guaranteeing mega-sales to disaffected teens.

From their synth-pop beginnings in 1981, Al Jourgensen’s Ministry evolved into a fire-breathing juggernaut that saw commercial success and critical acclaim playing electro, industrial and heavy metal. The band’s masterpiece is 1992’s ΚΕΦΑΛΗΞΘ (Psalm 69, The Way to Succeed and the Way to Suck Eggs). It’s a deliciously dark, powerful concoction of industrial staples, thrash metal, techno and noise, and features the tongue-in-cheek fundamentalist-baiting Jesus Built My Hotrod and irony-rich samples of George Bush Sr on NWO (New World Order). In his 60s, Al Jourgensen continues to fly the flag for industrial.

AYERS ROCKS

Nigel Ayers, of Nocturnal Emissions and Sterile Records, moved from the Peak District to a south London squat in the late 70s with bandmate Caroline K. In his first interview for years, Ayers recalls the early days of the industrial scene.

RC: What drew you to the industrial scene as opposed to forming a punk- or post-punk band?

I’m a person who was, and is, very discontented with how the world is run, and back then, the music I wanted to hear didn’t exist. The first wave of punk was very orthodox and violently opposed to anything that didn’t fit the mould. The way I saw Nocturnal Emissions, in 1980, was both post-punk and post-industrial and there wasn’t any existing “industrial scene” to be drawn into.

I think about 1983, Bourbonese Qualk moved into our street, then loads of other bands started appearing around south London. Test Dept and Band Of Holy Joy were in New Cross, there was a cluster in the squats in Bonnington Square near the Oval: SPK, Lustmørd, Andrew McKenzie, David Tibet, Annie Anxiety and the Crass mob would be in and out, William Burroughs would visit occasionally. At that time, the industrial scene was more of a social thing rather than long-distance cassette-swapping. I experienced a great spirit of generosity and cooperation from the bands that I knew.

Did you have any formal music training?

Do you mean like did we go to university to learn composition like Kraftwerk did, and like sound artists these days do? Nope. When I was 13 or so I started messing round with tape. I’d acquired a really old and clunky tape machine, and via Jamaican family friends some vintage reggae singles with scratched out labels. I got to like the version sides and made tape loops from them. Caroline, I think, had some music training and could read sheet music and understood formal music better than I did.

If you’re interested in sound, you get influenced by every other artist that has used it. But you have to find your own course, and the trick is to use what other artists have done, to steal it, recycle it and borrow presentation tactics, in creating your own work. In the end, I’ve taught myself my own way of making music, which suits me.

You were quoted as being influenced by Beefheart, but were you influenced by Throbbing Gristle or the Cabs for example?

Yes. I learned a lot of my craft from both these two bands. They were some of the very few people in those days doing anything like what we aspired to. I’d add The Velvet Underground and Public Image Ltd, and we absorbed a lot of dub. In the late 70s there was no getting away from TG, if you were working with themes of alienation, mind control and technology and coming from a background of expanded media and dissatisfaction with the situation you found yourself in.

The use of electronics and “generated” noise was critical to the industrial sound. How did you use electronics? Did you build your own equipment?

If you want to make your own sound, you have to make your own tools. If you want to express your own voice, you need to seize control from the professionals who dictate how things should sound. Develop your own way of working.

So yes, we built our own equipment, but we also used anything and everything we could lay our hands on. I don’t have the skills to make everything from scratch, but my brother Danny built synths. I’d come up with percussion instruments or techniques of manipulating tape.

Caroline bought an EMS synth that was being chucked out from a school in London, very cheaply. We liked it because it had a wider range of frequencies – and parameters you could play with. It was much more alien-sounding than the more “musical” synths that were being developed, like the Moog and the Korg.

I was lucky to meet Robin Wood, who runs EMS and he not only modified the synth we had to make it run sequences, he built us a vocoder from a kit from an electronics magazine. He made us a couple of digital delay lines, one modified to work as a pitchable sampler. So we were using a sampler before there was one on the market.

Has the industrial era left any real legacy in pop?

Yes, loads. Skrillex, The Prodigy… genres like dubstep and gabba and some strands of techno. But I think the legacy is far more profound in popular culture than popular music. Many very rich and very successful visual artists have used the tropes of the “industrial culture handbook” to guide their careers. If you want to hear industrial in the movies, try Graeme Revell (SPK) soundtracks such as The Crow, From Dusk Till Dawn or The Chronicles Of Riddick.

Nocturnal Emissions worked within a moral framework, not the shock-horror tactics that some contemporaries used. Was that deliberate?

I don’t know that we did that straightaway, we were capable of being shocking and horrible ourselves. It was intended to be targeted and satirical, but others round the scene were just starting fights to draw attention to themselves.

I think we reflected on it and didn’t like the way it was going. We didn’t do shock horror for shock horror’s sake. We weren’t trying to be like a video game. And we weren’t in the business of starting punch-ups, but we kept a critical edge. I tend to be straightforward about what I do and make an effort to explain ambiguities. I’ve had threats when I’ve vaguely mentioned anything critical of the passive acceptance of fascism, sadism or ultra-conformity within the scene.

You were quoted in 1983 as saying you were “totally fed up with industrial music now”.

Note the date – 1983! For a brief time industrial music seemed hip. That would be the year I was approached by Motown, scouting for British acts. It had already become a parody of a parody.

Did the genre leave a significant and influential body of work or was it all smoke and mirrors?

It was significant and influential to me at the time. Some of it now leaves a sour taste, but then that’s the way it went with celebrities at the time. You find out years later what they were really up to! You can learn a lot from studying how Throbbing Gristle worked, but also from the countless self-organising outfits who only released cassettes. There was good, honest work being done. But, if you look at the later careers of some of those involved, there was a lot of smoke and mirrors too and saying stuff because it sounded cool. There was incredible pretention in the genre.

Americans such as NiN, Swans, Ministry and Marilyn Manson eventually took industrial to huge arenas. Do you feel any affinity with these bands?

I haven’t done a lot of research but it looks like what they’re doing is reaffirming the worst elements of narcissistic, corporate US rock that I, for one, was desperately trying to get away from.

Which of your releases means most to you now?

Our work was diverse; many Nocturnal Emissions releases could be templates for whole genres of music. I enjoy Tissue Of Lies because it sounds so hands-on and naïve, while Drowning In A Sea Of Bliss is more sophisticated, timeless and powerful. Cathedral was the first time anyone had used CDs properly. Never Give Up is a classic! As far as NE things, we did something, then moved on. So it’s what you’re doing NOW that gives most pleasure. For more on Nigel Ayers: www.earthlydelights.co.uk