Under the Sign of Scorpio": Interview with Paolo Taviani (original) (raw)

How did you meet Joris Ivens? Could you describe your professional experience with him? We met him because Enrico Mattei said to our producer: 'I want to make a big documentary for Eni 2 and I want the world's greatest documentary filmmaker'. Mattei measured it all against himself: he was one of the greatest industrialists, so he wanted the greatest director. At that point, the producer came to us and asked: 'What should I tell him?' Having a strong knowledge of film history, we replied: 'Flaherty died twenty days ago; there's Joris Ivens, but he's a communist, you've got to tell Mattei'. Bear in mind that in those days you could never mention the word communist! That was the climate of the time. So Mattei said 'OK, so he's a communist, but is he good?' 'Yes'. 'Then it doesn't matter: let him come!' So Joris Ivens came and had a meeting with us. We really loved his films. We had often organised the screening of his films in Pisa, so we expected someone like him have something of an air of self-importance-we were very young at the time. Instead we met a man of great warmth and simplicity-and I'm not saying this with rhetoric for the person who died, but because that's what he was like! He was curious about us, our lives, the bond between Vittorio and me, and we hit it off right away. Among other things, he asked, as a communist (in those days being a communist wasn't like it is today: we didn't know much about Stalin, for instance), to go and speak with the leaders of the Italian Communist Party to find out something about this company Eni and this person Mattei and to figure out whether it was worthwhile making the film. He went and they said to him: 'Absolutely, because Mattei is an interesting character for us too'. So, very happy with this, he began the making and preparation of this film. I remember he asked to be isolated, not exactly in the centre of Rome, but in a hotel near Frascati, so he could work better. We would go there to meet him. I remember Vittorio and I had written something, with Valentino Orsini, who was also very much involved in this production, and we brought him lots of projects right away. Ivens-who knows if his notes are still around-would take our subjects, our ideas, saying 'Yes, indeed, interesting! But now let's go and make site visits.' And off we went. We travelled around the North, went to Central Italy, and to Sicily, but especially to Grottole (in Basilicata). And so began the script for this documentary film that he wrote with great passion. Ivens would say: 'This solitude helps me a lot, but I get bored a lot too! Why have you left me here? What am I doing up here? It's useful because it allows me to work, but please come more often! They consider me a legend here, but it's as though I've been "crystallised" in this place'. So we wrote this script together, or rather: he wrote it, but only after several meetings and discussions with all of us, where he proved to be very open. Talking about Ivens with a very vivid Paolo Taviani in his house in Rome, still energetic and filming at the age of 82, is like talking with an Italian Titan about a Dutch Titan. Last year he and his brother Vittorio received the Golden Bear at the Berlinale for their latest film Cesare deve morire (Ceasar Must Die, 2012), after a long and successful film career. Their collaboration with Ivens began in 1959 when they were still at the start of it.