Democratic Sen. Andy Kim explains why he thinks U.S. is nearing a constitutional crisis (original) (raw)

With Democrats in the minority, they're searching for ways to serve as a check on GOP power in Congress and the White House. Sen. Andy Kim spent his entire working life in government service at USAID, the State Department, National Security Council and the House. The New Jersey Democrat recently said the country is on the cusp of a constitutional crisis and joined Amna Nawaz to discuss more.

Notice: Transcripts are machine and human generated and lightly edited for accuracy. They may contain errors.

• Amna Nawaz:
  With Democrats in the minority, they're searching for ways to serve as a check on Republican power in Congress and at the White House.
  Andy Kim entered the U.S. Senate late last year after spending his entire working life in government service at USAID, the U.S. State Department, the National Security Council and the U.S. House. This weekend, the New Jersey Democrat declared the country to be on the cusp of a constitutional crisis.
  He joins us now from Capitol Hill.
  Senator Kim, welcome to the "News Hour." Thanks for joining us.
• Sen. Andy Kim (D-NJ):
  Yes, thanks for having me.
• Amna Nawaz:
  So what does it mean to you to be on the cusp of a constitutional crisis? What does that mean?
• Sen. Andy Kim:
  Well, it means that right now we're already in a place where the Trump administration is engaged in lawless activity through unilateral executive branch action, rather than coming through Congress.
  We see the efforts of firing or putting on administrative leave employees that are now — there are lawsuits there. And one thing that I'm particularly concerned about is that I'm not sure that this executive branch, this administration will follow the law, even when given a court order to do so, given the vice president's statements about how they don't feel like they need to follow through with the orders of these judges.
  That's deeply alarming. That actually would be a full-blown constitutional crisis then.
• Amna Nawaz:
  So when it comes to the administration ignoring court orders or acting outside the Constitution or usurping some congressional powers as well, the question the Democrats get asked a lot is, what can you do, right?
  And here exactly is what House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries had to say on that on Friday. Take a listen.
• Rep. Hakeem Jeffries (D-NY):
  They control the House, the Senate and the presidency. It's their government. What leverage do we have?
• Amna Nawaz:
  So, Senator Kim, what's the answer to that question? What leverage do Democrats have?
• Sen. Andy Kim:
  Immediately after the election in November, a number of U.S. senators met with states' attorney generals in the Capitol. We talked through a broader strategy, talked through what steps that they would plan to take when it comes to legislation, brainstormed some of the different things that we expected to see, given the research we have done on Project 2025, which has become their playbook.
  And so far they are having great effect. For instance, the first Trump administration, they lost 80 percent of their cases. As you mentioned, I worked at USAID. I have a lot of colleagues still there from my old days. We were able to get inside information about what is happening. We're feeding that into our investigative work, our oversight work.
  And then, when it comes to legislation, we have seen in the past how poorly the Republicans, especially in the House of Representatives, are at actually governing. I mean, I have seen Speaker Mike Johnson in — work in person. And I will tell you, it's not impressive.
  They need the Democrats, honestly, for a lot of legislation to be able to get passed. And those are the points that we're going to continue to push on going forward.
• Amna Nawaz:
  So the court battles, obviously, will take a while to play out. And I hear you on that for, but in terms of what Democrats can do, I mean, how far are you willing to go? You mentioned maybe not working with Republicans as much to help pass legislation.
  Are you willing to shut down the government to make your point?
• Sen. Andy Kim:
  Well, look, the Republicans are the ones that control whether or not the government shuts down. And I think that was the point that Hakeem, the leader, Jeffries, wanted to get across is, when they control the White House and that — the majority in both the Senate and the House, that's on them.
  Now, as I have said, they have not been able to pass any continuing resolution or budget on their own over the last two years. So, if they…
• Amna Nawaz:
  So, to that point, you could help force a shutdown. Are Democrats willing to do that?
• Sen. Andy Kim:
  No. Look, it's not about us forcing a shutdown. It's about whether or not they are actually engaged in a bipartisan effort to be able to move forward.
  If we're going to do this, we need to make sure that we have assurances that we're not going to see the continued actions like what we're seeing with Elon Musk, these funding freezes. That's what the American people deserve, and that's what they want.
  I just did a town hall last night with over 1,000 people on it, and people were just absolutely horrified about these actions that are happening. I worked through multiple government shutdowns. It's the last thing that we want. I don't want to see a shutdown.
  But what we're seeing right now is, Trump is already trying to shut down the government. He's already trying to dismantle it. And that's what the American people need to see, just the lawlessness that is involved in that type of unilateral action.
• Amna Nawaz:
  You know, on the USAID issue, we have seen some Democratic lawmakers and a few federal workers here outside the building protesting that.
  There are some senior Democrats, though, who say this is exactly the fight that President Trump wants. David Axelrod said, when you talk about cuts, the first thing people say is, cut foreign aid. Rahm Emanuel said: "While I do care about USAID as a former ambassador, that's not the hill that I'm going to die on."
  I guess the question is, are Democrats taking the bait from Trump on this?
• Sen. Andy Kim:
  No, look, I mean, I think it's important that we push back across the board.
  First of all, when it comes to USAID, we set the record straight. We say it's 0.5 percent of our government budget. But there's a reason why USAID is in the Reagan Building, because President Reagan was a strong supporter of development and humanitarian assistance being part of our tools alongside diplomacy and the military.
  In fact, Marco Rubio, when he was a senator, was a strong supporter, said that USAID is not charity, that this is a part of our national interest and our national security. So that's the kind of information the American people need to hear about this.
  I am pushing forward on that because I used to work there. Other Democratic leaders will lean in on whether it's CFPB, FEMA, Department of Education, other aspects. Each of us can be able to engage and tell that story to the American people.
• Amna Nawaz:
  Are you confident that the American people are where you are on this issue, though? Because, as I said, we didn't see a lot of protests to USAID essentially being shut down. We have seen ramping up of immigration arrests, and we haven't seen many protests to that.
  There hasn't been much of a response either even to the pardoning of January 6 rioters, which was not popular when people were asked about it in polls, but was done anyway. So do you think that the American people are seeing these issues the same way that you are?
• Sen. Andy Kim:
  I think they are more and more so.
  The average American, when they hear about cuts to government spending, they will say, OK, that sounds reasonable. But when you actually explain what is behind that, when the funding freezes will affect Meals on Wheels for seniors that are hungry and food-insecure, or about childcare, or Head Start, those are specific things where the American people say, no, no, that's not what we're on board with.
• Amna Nawaz:
  Democratic Senator from New Jersey Andy Kim joining us tonight.
  Senator Kim, thank you. It's good to speak with you.
• Sen. Andy Kim:
  Yes, thank you.