[Python-Dev] setuptools in 2.5. (original) (raw)

Anthony Baxter anthony at interlink.com.au
Thu Apr 20 08:52:49 CEST 2006

On Thursday 20 April 2006 16:30, Martin v. Löwis wrote:

I think it is unfair (to Richard Jones) to attribute this to setuptools. We already have a CPAN-type system: the Cheeseshop. What setuptools adds is roughly the CPAN shell (ie. CPAN.pm or however it is implemented). Actually, I think it is ezsetup that provides (something like) the CPAN shell.

No, we have half of a CPAN. We don't have the shell and the dependency finding and the ability to support multiple versions of the same package (at least, not without PYTHONPATH hell) and all the other stuff that makes CPAN useful.

And heck, Richard knows full well how good cheeseshop is. :-)

It is my understanding that setuptools itself has nothing to do with a CPAN-like system, just as Makemakefile.pl has nothing to do with CPAN.

I'd disagree. A package index is a very nice and useful thing in and of itself. But it's only part of the solution.

> - The "develop" mode > > This makes life that bit less painful all-round.

This could be added to distutils with no problems, right?

Not without a lot of the other stuff that's in setuptools.

That is says from itself that it is version 0.7a1dev-r45536 doesn't help to reduce that fear.

It's had two years of quite active development, so the version number of 0.7 is hardly a good indication. As far as all the other stuff on the end of the version string - well, right now Python's SVN trunk really could be considered 2.5a2dev-r45575.

I would like to require that this is solved by contributing to distutils, instead of replacing it. I know this is an unrealistic request to make - in particular because there is only a single developer world-wide which actively develops "something like that".

Requiring Phillip to rewrite distutils instead is certainly unfair - but I'm still unhappy with the path events take.

He's written code on top of distutils. How is this bad? It's using the underlying existing code.

> Finally, I'd like to point out that I think some of the hostility > towards Phillip's work has been excessive.

I'd like to make clear that my hostility is only towards his work; never towards Phillip Eby himself.

See, I don't get the hostility thing. While I have some concerns about the state of distutils today, I still admire Greg Ward's efforts in producing the code, and Python is in a much better place than had he not done the work. Responding to an effort like Greg's, or Phillip's, with hostility is a fantastic way to discourage people from working further on Python or on the code in question.

Anthony

-- Anthony Baxter <anthony at interlink.com.au> It's never too late to have a happy childhood.

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