[Python-Dev] (Not) delaying the 3.2 release (original) (raw)

Jacob Kaplan-Moss jacob at jacobian.org
Thu Sep 16 21:07:01 CEST 2010

On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Paul Moore <p.f.moore at gmail.com> wrote:

On 16 September 2010 07:16, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:

I'm not working to get Django running on Python 3.1 because I don't feel confident I'll be able to put any apps I write into production.

Why not? Since the I/O speed problem is fixed, I have no idea what you are referring to.  Please do be concrete. At the risk of putting words into Jacob's mouth, I understood him to mean that "production quality" WSGI servers either do not exist, or do not implement a consistently defined spec (i.e., everyone is doing their own thing to adapt WSGI to Python 3).

Yup, exactly.

Deploying web apps under Python 2 right now is actually pretty awesome. There's a clear leader in mod_wsgi that's fast, stable, easy to use, and under active development. There's a few great lightweight pure-Python servers, some new-hotness (Gunicorn) and some tried-and-true (CherryPy). There's a fast-as-hell bleeding-edge option (nginx + uwsgi). And those are just the ones I've successfully put into production -- there're still more options if one of those won't cut it.

The key here is that switching between all of these deployment situations is incredibly easy. Actually, this very afternoon I'm planning to experiment with a switch from mod_wsgi to gunicon. I'm confident enough with the inter-op that I'm going to make the switch on a production web server, monitor it for a bit, then switch back.

I've budgeted an hour for this, and I'll probably end up spending half that time playing Minecraft while I gather statistics.

Python 3 offers me none of this. I don't have a wide variety of tools to choose from. Worse, I don't even have a guarantee of interoperability between the tools that do exist.

I'm sorry if I'm coming across as a complainer here. It's a frustrating situation for me: I want to start using Python 3, but until there's a working web stack waiting for me I just can't justify the time. And unfortunately I'm just not familiar enough with the problem(s) to have any real shot at working towards a solution, and I'm certainly not enough of an expert to work on a PEP or spec. So all I can really do is agitate.

Jacob

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