[Python-Dev] PEP 572: A backward step in readability (original) (raw)

Guido van Rossum guido at python.org
Mon Apr 30 14:33:49 EDT 2018

TBH I think the text of the PEP could be much improved -- for example it should use motivating examples from real code, not artificial examples to show edge cases of the semantics.

At this point I don't think that more people expressing an opinion one way or another are going to make a difference. Nobody whose vote matters is going to be convinced either way.

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 9:53 AM, Paul Moore <p.f.moore at gmail.com> wrote:

On 30 April 2018 at 17:37, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote: > On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 08:09:35AM +0100, Paddy McCarthy wrote: > [...] >> A PEP that can detract from readability; readability, a central >> tenet of Python, should >> be rejected, (on principle!), when such objections are treated so dismissively. > > Unless you have an objective measurement of readability, that objection > is mere subjective personal preference, and not one that everyone agrees > with. I for one think that used wisely, binding expressions will be > more readable than the alternatives. (Even though := is not my > preferred syntax.)

On the other hand, the PEP doesn't do much to address the various claims of readability issues. Whether they are subjective or not, well-founded or not, the PEP does (in my view) come across as unnecessarily dismissive of the question of readability. I suspect that's largely due to Chris being extremely tired of having the same arguments over and over again, and I can understand that. However, I think it could be covered more completely - the remainder of your post is exactly the sort of response that would be useful to have recorded. But one way or another, I think people will vote on the PEP based on their (subjective) views, and so readability will get factored into the overall response, one way or another. To what extent that response affects Guido's final decision (I can't see him delegating on this one!) remains to be seen, and honestly, I'm willing to trust Guido's intuition. Paul

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