| Whose Name is First - the Gentlemen or the Lady - in Joint Address? How to Address a Couple: Mr. & Mrs.? or Given Names? How To Address Two Employees At The Same Company? How to Address an Engaged Couple? How to Address a Couple: Both are Doctors? How to Address a Couple: She is a Dr., He is a Mr. How to Address a Pastor and His Professor Wife? How to Address a Pastor and His Pastor Wife? How to Address a Pastor and Her Husband? How to Address a Pastor and Her Military Husband? How to Address a Dean and His Wife? How To Write My Name as Mayor with My Doctor Husband? How To Write the Name of the Mayor and Her Doctor Husband? How To Address a Mayor and His Wife? How To Address a Member of a City Council & His/Her Spouse? How To Address a Military Officer and Spouse? How To Address Married Military Officers with the Same Rank? How To Address Married Military Officers with the Same Rank: One is Active Duty, the Other is Retired? How To Address Married Military Officers with Different Ranks? How to Address a Military Officer and a Spouse Who Is a Medical Doctor? How to Address a Military Officer and a Spouse Who Is a Dentist? How To Address a Retired Military Officer and Spouse? How To Address a Retired Military Officer and Spouse is a Retired Judge? How to Write the Names of a University President & Spouse? How to Write the Names of a Couple on a Donor's List? How To Address The President and First Lady? How to I Autograph a Book to The President and First Lady? How to Address The Vice President and Spouse? How To Address a former US Presidentand First Lady? How To Address an Invitation to Hillary and Bill Clinton? How to Address an Ambassador and Her Husband? How to Address a Former US Senator and His Wife? How To Address a US Representative and His Wife ? How To Address Two Honorables? |
| How to Address a Mr. & Mrs. on an InvitationOr How Can I Use Her First Name Too? I'm addressing invitations and wondering what the best way is to include the first names of both spouses. Which way is more correct: Mr. John and Mrs. Jane Doe or Mr. and Mrs. John and Jane Doe? Or is there a better way than this? -- Lynna Dear Lynna, The forms you mention are awkward ... and I think the reason is: Mr. and Mrs. (His Full Name) is traditional/formal. (First Name) + (First Name) + (Sur name) is casual/informal. The forms you mention are a little bit formal and a little bit casual, and end up being odd. -- Robert Hickey Dear Mr. Hickey I'm realize that traditionally, a formal invitation should be addressed to Mr. and Mrs. John Doe. However, I find it offensive to omit the female's name and wish to find a formal way of including it. This is actually a HUGE topic right now amongst women. Many are of the mindset that when etiquette becomes offensive, then its no longer proper etiquette. So, this debate has blossomed to figure out the best way to include both people's names and to perhaps give up the "don't separate a man from his name" tradition or to start putting the wife's name first even if she's not using Ms. and so forth. Consequently, people are just making up their own way to do it and there isn't continuity. However, It seems they are yearning for continuity but can't decide on the appropriate alternative. To be honest, I don't think eitherMr. John and Mrs. Jane Doe or Mr. and Mrs. John and Jane Doe sound good. Perhaps it's just awkward because it's new? I suppose other options could be Mr. John Doe and Mrs. Jane Doe, or Mrs. Jane and Mr. John Doe. -- Lynna Dear Lynna, Thanks for your thoughtful note. Etiquette is something that (1) changes over time (2) is specific to a situation, and (3) is specific to a group. So it's not etiquette that is offensive ... it's that rules that work in one place, won't necessarily work everyplace. What I suggest in my book is always the most formal option -- one can be done consistently for a wide variety of guests. And yes, the forms I present may be too formal for every situation. The people who use my book are usually people working for high officials ... perhaps in their office .... or organizing events where the guests include some high officials ... military officers, elected officials, ambassadors, clergy, academics, and international visitors. In those places you need to have a single style for all the types of names you write. What works best when addressing people from many different places ends up being the most formal. The White House, The U.S. Supreme Court, and many Governors' offices use my book. But when my niece, Kathleen, got married she didn't follow what's in my book for everyone! But, for certain people accustomed to formality ... she did. So since you asked ... why not address the invitations as you think the guest would like their name to appear when they get the envelope? (1) Casual for people you know would perhaps think casual will right: Jane and John Doe (2) Formal for people who will prefer the formal way: Mr. and Mrs. John Doe (3) And formal for people you don't know very well ... since when in doubt going formal is always safe. It's easier to explain being over dressed at a party than being under dressed ... so being more formal is easier to explain than being too informal.-- Robert |
| How to Write a Couple's Name On a Donor's List?We are figuring out how to request or names be listed on a donor's list. We see in your book that the most formal way to write our names is Ambassador Kenneth Cole Britt and Mrs. Britt. BUT I want both our names listed and for my wife not to be listed as Mrs. Britt. We are thinking of -- Ambassador Kenneth Cole and Mary Leighton Britt. I've seen that form used at many museums. Technically I am The Honorable but you don't see that very often in this sort of list. Right? -- Ken Dear Ambassador Britt, I have seen that form at carved on walls of museums too, but I always assume they were lacking space for a complete name or were ran short of money for the engraving and had to skimp on the number of letters. Regarding the form I give in my book: it is the most formal form for others to use to address you. In what you write about today, it's you writing your own name -- not a form of address. The Honorable would be used by others addressing you -- not you presenting your own name. I like what you suggest except I would include your full name ... then your wife's full name. So I suggest: Ambassador Kenneth Cole Britt and Mary Leighton Britt Which would be for other ranks: Captain Kenneth Cole Britt and Mary Leighton Britt Judge Kenneth Cole Britt and Mary Leighton Britt Pastor Kenneth Cole Britt and Mary Leighton Britt And for couples that don't have a rank or special honorific ... leave of the Mr. and Mrs.: Kenneth Cole Britt and Mary Leighton Britt -- Robert Hickey How to Address a Couple Where She is A Doctor and He is a Mister? My brother (Erwin Wright) and sister-in-law (Monica Vintner) write their names as Wright and Vintner on the return address. She has kept her maiden name and also has a PhD in academia. What is the correct way to address them on invitations (formal and informal), as well as holiday or anniversary cards? -- M. TorresDear M. Torres: The formal social form would be (following the rules in etiquette books) to put Monica first since she's "Dr." and that has a higher precedence than a "Mr." Partners with special honorifics (doctorates, military ranks, etc.) are most formally listed first in joint forms of address: Dr. Monica Vintner and Mr. Erwin Wright 3333 Smith Court Henderson, OH 44444 But -- you are using this on family social cards. Hummm. Since they list themselves "Wright and Vintner" on their return address -- they have established that to be their casual preference. For casual correspondence I'd use it and address the envelope as: Wright and Vintner 3333 Smith Court Henderson, OH 44444 And inside write "Dear Monica and Erwin" -- Robert Hickey How to Address a Two Doctors? I attended a dinner given in the home of a plastic surgeon (him) and a dentist (her). Both are doctors with their own practice. When I was introduced it was first names. How do I address the envelope of the thank you note? -- Cecilia BonningtonDear Ms. Bonnington: I cover how to address two doctors in my book: Chapter Nine - Joint Forms of Address. When couples have the same rank ... which they do in this case since the are both Dr. ... on the mailing envelope they would be listed in the order established in the order in Mr. & Mrs. Dr. Adam Wilson and Dr. Cynthia Wilson (Address) or if they use different last names Dr. Adam Wilson and Dr. Cynthia Smithson (Address) Then on the salutation, since you are on a first-name basis address them as: Dear Adam and Cynthia, What I've outlined above is the most formal, so it's never incorrect. Note that I'm intentionally avoiding -- and suggest you do too -- any form that combines their names and "Dr" like Drs. Adam and Cynthia Wilson. -- Robert Hickey How to Address a Couple on an Invitation:A Judge and an Army Officer -- Both Retired? I am addressing envelopes for invitations to the retirement of a municipal employee. One couple being invited is our former municipal court judge (she is retired) and her husband who is a brigadier general (Army), also retired. Your book says that once honorable, always an honorable. Is a judgeship considered a “rank”? Who has the higher rank in this situation? ~ Virginia @ Public Works Dear T. Suzuki: Joint forms can be complicated! I cover all this in my book in the chapter on Joint Forms of Address. Yes, being "the Honorable" is indeed a personal rank which stays with the person. On the envelope it would be The Honorable Nancy Doe and Brigadier General William Doe As a retired judge she is still the honorable. USA (United States Army) and Retired are not used on social correspondence. Elected officials and judges of federal, state, and municipals courts are higher than an appointed armed service officer ... Unless he is the one you are actually inviting and she is just his "guest" ... your invitee is listed first ... their guest is listed after them. On the inside envelope list them as you would address them in conversation: Judge Doe and General Doe -- Robert Hickey How to Address a Military Officer & Dentist? How do I address an envelope to a United States Navy Captain and a Dentist who are married? Captain Joshua & Dr. Brooke Jones? -- D. Bainbridge Dear Mr. D. Bainbridge: Most formally people with titles and ranks get their names as a unit ... not combined with another person's name. Since he is in uniform ... military uniformed personnel have precedence over civilians ... so the USN Captain is listed first. So the form would be: Captain Joshua Jones and Dr. Brooke Jones (Address) -- Robert Hickey How to Address a Military Officer and a Medical Doctor? What is the correct form for a joint salutation when the wife is a medical doctor and the husband is a Colonel (not sure of the branch)? They share the same last name. Is there a hierarchy to which is listed first? Same question for the address on the envelope: Should the male go first or does a Dr. trump a Colonel regardless of the gender? _-- Jeanie Farrell in Arkansas_Dear Ms. Farrell: 1) One doesn’t specify the branch of service on a social letter ... so you are off the hook! When writing an official letter to a Colonel at his office ... you would include USA or USAF after his name ... and you would need to find out the branch. 2) In this combination the Colonel goes first: he has an official rank. The doctor has an academic degree, but not an official rank. 3) Wives of officials are usually written as "Mrs. (surname)", but since she’s a “Dr.”, it would be acceptable to use her first and last name as I suggest below. On the envelope write this line for line (does not have to be indented however): Colonel John Wilson and Dr. Mary Wilson (Address) In the salutation write: Dear Colonel Wilson and Dr. Wilson, _-- Robert Hickey_Robert, I have a follow-up question. I have been under the assumption that if a couple shares the same last name it is not necessary to repeat it in the joint salutation or the joint mail name. Is it wrong in your opinion to say? On the envelope: Colonel John and Dr. Mary Wilson In the salutation: Dear Colonel and Dr. Wilson Thank you so much, _-- Jeanie Farrell in Arkansas_Jeanie, I always suggest the most formal way ... figuring formal is never wrong ... and being casual might be. And the most formal way to write any name is do so completely, all on a line by itself. Colonel John Wilson and Dr. Mary Wilson (Address) When the couple uses the same last name and the wife uses Mrs. -- you see the following used on a holiday cards but not on anything very formal: Colonel and Mrs. John Wilson (Address) Most formally it's: Colonel John Wilson and Mrs. Wilson (Address) When it's the woman who is the official it becomes: Colonel Mary Wilson and Mr. John Wilson (Address) Men using the same last name get their full names, wives don't. That's the tradition! A salutation is based on what one calls the other in conversation. Most formally in a salutation use: Dear Colonel Wilson and Dr. Wilson, Less formally in a salutation use: Dear Colonel and Dr. Wilson, I'd use on of the formal salutations until I was ready to use simply Dear John and Mary, -- RobertHow to Address a Military Officer & Medical Doctor... But They Use Different Last Names? I need to address an envelope for a husband and wife who use different last names. The woman is a M.D. medical doctor and her husband is a captain in the military. -- PatDear Pat, 1. Standard protocol is that a person with a rank will have higher precedence than a person without a rank. So the captain's name is first. (See also #4 below.) 2. If this social correspondence then his branch of service ... USA or USN ... is not included. Official would include situations when you are writing to him as a Captain ... and it was regarding his service in the the Armed Forces 3. If this is social correspondence then she is "Dr." before ... not "MD" after Captain William Henderson and Dr. Mary Smith (a ddress) 4. If she is the invited guest and he is being invited as a courtesy ... as her escort ... then the precedence reverses. The guest is granted higher precedence and the guest's name is first. Dr. Mary Smith and Captain William Henderson (address) FYI, your question is answered in my book in my chapter on joint forms of address. -- Robert Hickey |
| How to Address Married Military Officers with Different Ranks? My brother and my sister-in-law are USAF. My sister-in-law holds a higher rank (Lt Col) than my brother (Major). When addressing an envelope does the higher rank come first, or does the male get first billing as done in "Mr. and Mrs."? -- Mary VogelsangDear Ms. Vogelsang, I cover how to decide who is listed first in my book. Higher rank always is listed first in joint address when the letter is to them equally or to the higher person. So the order of the names should be: Lieutenant Colonel Linda Smith and Major William Smith -- Robert Hickey How to Address a Military Officer and His/Her Spouse? Dear Mr. Hickey: I’m wondering about couples… if you are addressing a wedding invitation to Joe Schmo and his wife and he’s a 2nd Lieutenant in the USMC, how should the invitation read? --- Marilyn HuddlestonDear Ms. Huddleston: I cover this in Chapter 9: Joint Forms of Address. The envelope for their invitation should read: Second Lieutenant Joseph Schmo and Mrs. Schmo (street) **(state and ZIP code)**1) On a social invitation USMC is not included. On an official letter to the Second Lieutenant you would include it.2) Most formally you don't break up a rank + name "Second Lieutenant and Mrs. Joseph Schmo" is frowned on in the armed services. You do see it on envelopes addressed by civilians, but it not the best form.3) An official person ... in the case the Marine in uniform ... gets his or her name on a line by itself ... so the and Mrs. Schmo is on the next line. -- Robert HickeyHow to Address a Retired Military Officer & Spouse?Dear Mr. Hickey:Where in your book do you cover how I address should an envelope to a retired Lt. Col. in the Air Force and his wife? _--- Living near the Base_Dear Living near the Base:Use the forms I show under Joint Forms of Address, Members of the Armed Services on page 147. Formal forms for an "official" envelope would be: Lieutenant Colonel Robert W. Thompson, USAF, Retired and Mrs. Thompson Address Formal forms for a "social" envelope would be: Lieutenant Colonel Robert W. Thompson and Mrs. Thompson Address Or: Lt Col Robert W. Thompson and Mrs. Thompson Address 1) Lt Col -- capitalized, spaced, and without periods as shown -- is the USAF-specific form of the abbreviation for a Lieutenant Colonel2) 'Retired" would not be required for a social envelope. It would be on an official envelope. If you are addressing an invitation to a military event at which there will be active duty officers, you should use "...Thompson, USAF Retired" or "...Thompson, USAF Ret." 3) Spelling out the rank is always the most formal, But in the armed services, they do use the service-specific abbreviations.4) The most formal way to write an official person's name is to not break up the rank and the name ... hence Mrs. Thompson is on the next line -- not between his rank and his name.5) The abbreviation with the periods is a "social form" which the military protocol officers do not like ... but if you look in "social etiquette books" .... you will see it. All that said about the 'rules' -- less formally you will certainly see on a holiday card addressed using the informal format of "Mr. and Mrs." Lt. Col. and Mrs. Robert W. Thompson -- Robert HickeyHow to Address a Two Pastors? What is the proper way to address a letter to my pastor and his wife is also a pastor? Thank you in advance. -- Susan Wise Dear Ms. Wise: I cover how to address two pastors in Chapter Nine: Joint Forms of Address. You didn't mention if they both use the same last name ... so I will assume the do. And I will also assume you address each as Pastor (surname) in conversation rather than Dr., Father, or something else. That said ... on the envelope ... address it to "your pastor" first ... and put the name of "his spouse" on the second line: The Reverend Clinton Jones and The Reverend Susan Jones (address) On the salutation to both use: Dear Pastors Jones, -- Robert Hickey How to Address a Female Pastor & Her Husband? How do I address a sympathy card to our female pastor and her husband on the death of her husband’s son from a previous marriage? -- nskcomstock Dear nskcomstock, Most formally on an envelope your Pastor is listed first since she is The Reverend (Full Name) and he is a Mr. (Full Name). People with courtesy titles rank higher than people without them. And because she has a title ... she gets her whole name as a unit ... not mixed in with her spouse's name. So avoid anything resembling The Reverend Allyson and Mr. Wilson Smith... which is really bad. And assuming they use the same last name ... the most formal would be: The Reverend Allyson Smith and Mr. Wilson Smith In the salutation you could use the form you think she prefers in conversation .... Dear Pastor and Mr. Smith, Dear Dr. and Mr. Smith, Or if you are on a first name basis use: Dear Allyson and Wilson, -- Robert Hickey How to Address a Pastor and Her Military Husband? My question has to do with addressing envelopes. Our Pastor, Alyson Smith, of the Presbyterian Denomination, is married to a retired Lieutenant Commander, USN, Richard. He is to be awarded his PhD soon. Regardless of the degree, I have not been able to find out how one is to address an invitation, card, or letter to the two of them, together. --- Bobbi Sue Minton Dear Ms. Minton: I have an entire chapter on joint forms of address in my book for just this type of situation. I am guessing you are addressing him socially, so ... socially his name is written: Lieutenant Commander Richard Smith As a member of the clergy, her name is written: The Reverend Alyson Smith RANK WITH A POST-NOMINAL ABBREVIATION Regarding his PhD. In the US academic post nominals are never used with a rank. So he can be Lieutenant Commander Richard Smith (or Commander Smith in conversation) or Richard Smith, PhD (or Dr. Smith in conversation if he wants to be address as "Dr.") but never Lieutenant Commander Richard Smith PhD. USE OF DOCTOR Usually holders of PhD's don't use Dr. (name) unless they work in academia or research. E.g., the holder of a doctorate in French who teaches would use Dr. (name) .... The holder of a PhD in finance who works at a bank wouldn't. But ultimately it's his option how he is addressed. WHOSE NAME IS FIRST? An active duty or retired military person has higher precedence than a civilian so is listed first. So in most circumstances the joint form would be: Lieutenant Commander Richard Smith and The Reverend Alyson Smith BUT if she is the invited guest ... and he is invited as her escort, then as the guest her name would appear first: The Reverend Alyson Smith and Lieutenant Commander Richard Smith I have spelled out "Lieutenant Commander" every time above, to avoid the whole issue of how to abbreviate his rank. I cover that in my book on pages 94-98 (service-specific abbreviations) if you need that information. -- Robert HickeyHow To Address a Pastor and His 'Professor' Wife? I refer to your book often. How do I address a thank-you note to a pastor and his wife when both hold doctorates and she is a college professor? -- Lucy Hendershott, Great Falls, VirginiaDear Ms. Hendershott: If it's a thank-you note .. it's social correspondence (as opposed to official correspondence to one or the other's office) so it's easier .... because you don't use their post-nominal initials on social correspondence. Put each name a line of its own ... so each gets their full name just right The Reverend Dennis Winslow and Dr. Marilyn Winslow His name would be first .... as a member of the clergy. Clergy has higher precedence than a private citizen. Even as a professor with a doctorate ... she's a still private citizen. You definitely want to avoid forms such as The Reverend and Dr. Winslow or The Reverend Dennis and Dr. Marilyn Winslow -- Robert Hickey How to Write the Names of a University President and Spouse on an Wedding Invitation? I love your book, but have a question about University Presidents. I am working on a wedding invitation where the father of the bride is the president of a university. He also holds several honorary doctorates. When invitations go out from the university we use "President and Mrs. John Jones request the pleasure . . ." Should the wedding invitation be worded as "President and Mrs." , "Dr. and Mrs." or "President Dr. and Mrs."? Also, when dealing with an honorary doctorate, do you write out "Doctor" on formal invitations as you do with medical doctors? -- Evelyn Cotton Dear Ms. Cotton, Definitely not "President Dr." Two honorifics are not traditionally combined in the United States. Is he typically addressed as Dr. Jones? Recipients of honorary doctorates are not addressed as Dr., but every president of a university I've ever encountered held a doctorate in his or her own right ... so check on that. If you want to be the most formal it would be: Dr. John Jones and Mrs. Jones Dr. and Mrs. John Jones ... is O.K. ... just less formal than the form above. Regarding the abbreviation of doctor, "Dr." is O.K. even on formal invitations. Dr., Mr., Mrs. are abbreviations all used on invitations. Regarding use of' President as an honorific ... e.g. calling him President Jones. Only the President of the United States is most formally addresed in writing as "The President." Other presidents are normally addressed by whatever honorific they are entitled to ... Mr./Ms./Dr./etc. and then identified by their office as in: Dr. John Jones, President of the University of Delaware -- Robert Hickey How To Address Married Military Officers of Equal Rank? How do you address married couples in the military with the same rank. Is it? Captains John and Mary Smith or is it? Captain John Smith and Captain Mary Smith Also what if they are married but have different last names? -- Candy J. Dear PSC: I cover how to address two officers in the military in Chapter Nine: Joint Forms of Address. l am guessing this is a social form ... such as an invitation? And that both are captains in the same service? O.K.? if so ... Outside envelope: When someone has a special title/rank .. most formally you write out their full name and you don't mix it with the other name: So both get their rank + full name. But ... whose name goes first? His name? Her name? There is a protocol for this decision, and it's neither alphabetical nor ladies first. Military officers of the same rank are always ordered by seniority. One member of the couple has an earlier date of rank ... which gives that person higher precedence / greater seniority. I can guarantee you they have discussed this and the couple knows which of them has higher precedence/seniority by date of rank! So you need to contact them if you are determined to do it correctly. Since each is getting listed fully ... it does not matter if they have different last names Captain John Smith and Captain Mary Smith (if he has seniority) Address Captain Mary Smith and Captain John Smith (if she has seniority) Address Inside envelope: Captains Smith (same last name, most formally) Captain Smith and Captain Wilson (different last names, more senior person listed first) Mary and William (less formally if they are very close friends or family) -- Robert Hickey How To Address Married Officers:Equal Ranks, One Active, the Other Retired? What is the proper way to address two married members of the military when one is active duty and one is retired and they are the same rank on official correspondence? I couldn' find the answer on your site. -- Tish Dear Tish: The rule of precedence is that personnel are grouped by rank ... and active is before retired. The way it's phrased on the precedence list I include in my book (page 127) is for, say O-8's: VIP CODE 5 43. Two-star military: Major general, rear admirals, by seniority. Retired officers by rank by after active duty officers I don't try and answer everything on the site .... I have a chapter in my book on precedence and joint forms of address if this sort of thing comes up often. -- Robert Hickey |
| Whose Name is First? His or Hers? In an informal salutation for a married couple using just first names .... whose name is first? His or hers? -- Anne Dear Anne: Should you write it ladies first? Dear Anne and Tom, Should you write it to preserve the Mr. & Mrs. order? Dear Tom and Ann, When there is no surname used ... more etiquette books (if that is any measure) show ladies first: Dear Anne and Tom, -- Robert Hickey Hi Robert, Thanks! I wasn’t expecting a response so quickly. You confirm what I’ve found by searching all over – that there really isn’t a hard and fast rule, so I think we’ll have to define it here so as not to offend the donor’s we address. I’ve found your site to be most helpful as I work on writing a procedure for our Development Office. -- Anne Gentlemen or Ladies First in Joint Address? When listing a couple using first names and last name whose name comes first? Is it Tom and Anne Smyth or Anne and Tom Smyth? **-- Liz**Dear Liz: More etiquette books (if that is any measure) show ladies first: Anne and Tom Smyth I've most often seen this explained as keeping the man's full name together as a unit. -- Robert Hickey Whose Name Is First: The Man or Woman? You write that is is acceptable to write "Dear Ann and Tom." I wish that were true! Ladies and Gentleman .... is the only time in which we women come first according to anyone I know. As women we have to hang on to something so we're not always secondary to men. My sole purpose of keeping my maiden name, Ms. Mary Harrison, is to be equal to my spouse, Mr. Albert Nygard. -- Ms. Mary Harrison Dear Ms. Harrision: In the world of English social address you are right, often it's "ladies second" rather than "ladies first." However in the world of professional and official address ... where gender is not considered ... there are many times the woman's name goes first. Here are some examples of forms of address determined by the rules of precedence: 1) If the woman is the guest to an official event_(e.g., the woman is the reason the invitation is being extended)_ and her spouse is attending as her guest ... her name goes first: Ms. Mary Harrison and Mr. Albert Nygard 2) If the woman holds a higher office, higher rank, or has a special honorific -- she outranks her husband who has a lower office, lower rank or has no special honorific -- a protocol officer sending out official invitations would always list the woman first in a married couple. E.g.: The Honorable Mary Harrison and Mr. Albert Nygard The Reverend Mary Harrison and Mr. Albert Nygard Her Excellency Mary Harrison and Mr. Albert Nygard General Mary Harrison, USA and Major Albert Nygard, USA Major Mary Harrison and Mr. Albert Nygard Dr. Mary Harrison and Mr. Albert Nygard I cover all this and more in the chapters in my book on Joint Forms of Address and Precedence. -- Robert Hickey How to Address an Engaged Couple? How would you address an envelope to a retired pastor and his fiancee? They do not live together. He is a very dear friend, I have not yet met her. -- DM Keller Dear DM Keller: In this case since he's a pastor his name would be first. So, if they present themselves as a couple: His full name on the first line Her full name on a second line In other cases her name might be first if she had higher precedence. If you put an and in front of her name it implies they are married, so in this case just list the names without an and. NOTE: If they don't present themselves as a couple ... e.g., not living together ... consider this: Most formally it may be better to address the letter to him since he's your friend, and include greetings to her in the letter itself. These are some rules for issuing formal invitations which present the traditional logic: 1) Unmarried person are each issued an individual invitation, not a joint invitation 2) An invitation is issued to one person and that person is invited to bring a guest 3) If they present themselves as an established couple ... they are issued a joint invitation. -- Robert Hickey How to Address a Two Honorables? I need to send a letter to two people (husband and wife) who are married and both need to be addressed as The Honorable in an address. How do I address them?! Thanks. -- Rick Eckis on Capital HillDear Mr. Eckis: I include how to address two elected officials in Chapter Nine: Joint Forms of Address. (1) First you need to determine which person has higher precedence so you can know whose name is listed first. (2) Then list each person's name on a line by itself. Anyone's who is The Honorable gets his or her name written in full on a line by itself. Gender is not a consideration. So if you determine he has higher precedence, his name is on the first line and hers in on the second. If she has higher precedence she is listed first. The Honorable (full name) and The Honorable (full name) Address -- Robert HickeyHow To Address Two Ambassadors in a Salutation ? Please tell me what the joint salutation would be for married U.S. ambassadors with different last names. Am I correct in that the mail names would be ... The Honorable Jack G. Small and The Honorable Ann K. Jones Thanks so much! **-- Debbie**Dear Debbie: Yes .. .that is perfect. Each gets their full name spelled out on their own line. Next question is whose name is listed first? You listed Jack Small. Officially the one who became an ambassador earlier has higher precedence ... and would be listed first ... unless you are writing to one of them at their post ... and an ambassador at his or her post has the higher precedence. -- Robert Hickey How to Address an Ambassador and Her Husband? What is the proper form of address for an American ambassador-at-large, who is a woman, and her husband? Is it: The Honorable Jane Doe and Mr. John Doe or The Honorable Jane Doe and Mr. Doe? Also, how about the salutation? Is it: Dear Ms. Doe and Mr. Doe or Dear Ms. and Mr. Doe? Is that covered in your book? Thanks! _-- AC in NYC_Dear GB: Yes, I have a chapter on joint forms of address. This combination is covered on page 145. The correct address would be: The Honorable Jane Doe and Mr. John Doe ... because men get their full names when their wives name is listed first due to her higher precedence. For a formal salutation use: Dear Madame Ambassador and Mr. Doe: Although using "ambassador" as the honorific would also be O.K.: Dear Ambassador Doe and Mr. Doe: -- Robert Hickey |
| **How Do I Two Employees At The Same Company?**How do you address a business letter to two people at the same company they both have different titles? The people are David McGraw, Supply Manager, and Wayne Kammerer, Maintenance Manager. - Linda Whedbee Dear Ms. Whedbee: You don't identify either as Dr., Captain, or having some special honorific ... so address each with the honorific of Mr. If you are aware that one position is higher in the organizational hierarchy ... list that name first. If you are not aware of any hierarchical order, list their names in alphabetical order. So on the letter: Mr. Wayne Kammerer, Maintenance Manager Mr. David McGraw, Supply Manager (Name of Company) (Address) As the salutation: Dear Mr. Kammerer and Mr. McGrew: -- Robert HickeyHow to Address a Dean and His Wife?Hi Robert,I'm writing a thank-you letter to a dean and his wife. He has a doctorate but I am not sure how to address the envelope and start the note. What is the proper way to do this? -- Susan @ Athens Interiors, Athens, GeorgiaDear Susan, I am guessing this is an 'academic dean" rather than an "Episcopal dean” Right? The issues I think you are asking are; * Should he be addressed as “Dr.” or as “Dean”? * How do you include his wife's name? Official letters to a Dean sent to his office are addressed to Stephen Smith, PhD. Social letters to his home are addressed to Dr. Stephen Smith. I see on your note that you are an interior designer. If you are writing to him about design work at his home, I’d use Dr. Stephen Smith since that would be personal rather than professional issue to him. Most formally Dean is used as an honorific in conversation when one is acting as a Dean: “Dean Smith, will you be chairing the faculty meeting?” And other people will refer to him (when he is acting as Dean) as "The Dean will be here in 15 minutes." "Dean Smith will see you now." But back to your letter: On the envelope if they use the same last name: Most formally a social letter: Dr. Stephen L. Smith and Mrs. Smith Address Or less formally: Dr. and Mrs. Stephen Smith Address Salutation: Most formally: Dear Dr. Smith and Mrs. Smith, Or less formally: Dear Dr. and Mrs. Smith,Most formally a social letter if they use different last names Envelope: Dr. Stephen L. Smith and Ms. Mary Johnson Address Salutation: Dear Dr. Smith and Ms. Johnson -- Robert HickeyHow to I Autograph a Book to The President and First Lady?Dear Mr. Hickey How should I write the names of President Obama and the First Lady in a copy of my book I will autograph and present to them? -- Alice RipponDear Ms.Rippon Write their names as follows To The President and Mrs. Obama Then add whatever you like... something like: With Admiration, Alice Rippon (Month), (Year) -- Robert HickeyHow to Address a Thank-you Note to a Former President of the United States and a Former First Lady? I was invited to dinner by President George H. W. Bush Sr. and Mrs. Bush last week at the Bush Library and Museum and the Presidential Center. There wasn't a written invitation - it was a verbal invitation - so I don't have something that says "The President and Mrs. Bush invites you", or "The President invites you" -- so I can be certain exactly who was the host and/or hostess of the event. Should a thank you card be written to “The President” only? Or should it be addressed to "The President and Mrs. Bush"? Should my note be hand written? My thought is that the card should be written to the President only, but I'm not sure what is correct. _-- DH and SB in Aerospace.Dear DH and SB: You refer to your host as The President which is not correct for a former President. This event was hosted by “Bush-41” -- a former President is traditionally addressed as Mr. (Surname), in this case Mr. Bush. Holders of office of which there is only one at a time do not continue to use the "title" after leaving the office (see page 85). They revert to either “The Honorable (full name)” -OR- “Mr./Ms. (surname)” and are identified as "the former …”. When Thomas Jefferson left the White House he returned to being Mr. Jefferson. When Dwight Eisenhower returned to Gettysburg he returned to being General Eisenhower. If you addressed “Bush-41” as President Bush he would probably not correct you. At the Bush-43 White House they did write the place card for the former Presidents as "President (surname)" as a courtesy, with the reasoning that they are returning to their former home. It remains to be seen it the current administration continues this new style. Regarding the thank you note, even though there was no written invitation, it's always correct to thank your host/hostess with a prompt note. Socially when the hosts are a Mr. & Mrs., the note is addressed to the hostess. Mail your hand-written note within 24 hours. Address the envelope to “Mrs. George H.W. Bush.” Use the salutation “Dear Mrs. Bush,.” If you want to mention your appreciation to the former president, you could include something like “_… and please extend my thanks to Mr. Bush” in the text. -- Robert HickeyHow to Address The President and First Lady? Dear Mr. Hickey: I am looking in your book and I find a salutation for The President, and a salutation for The First Lady, but I can’t find a form for the correct salutation to use when writing President Obama and Mrs. Obama (in the same letter), If you tell me, I would be most appreciative! --- Desiree WhitleyDear Ms. Whitley: You don't see a form for that because an official letter would not be jointly addressed to The President and The First Lady. Each has their own office ... his in the West Wing ... and hers in the East Wing ... both at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. So separate letters would be sent to each. But that said ... if you are set on writing them as a couple write it line-for-line like this: The President and Mrs. Obama The White House 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W. Washington, DC 20500 Open the letter with the salutation: Dear Mr. President and Mrs. Obama: Close the letter with: Most Respectfully, Desiree Whitley -- Robert Hickey**How to Address the Vice President and Spouse?**Dear Mr. Hickey: I am sending a formal invitation to several government officials. How would I address an envelope to Joe Biden and his wife-- Melanie Schaeffer, Moline, IllinoisDear Ms. Schaeffer: The Vice President and his wife would be: The Vice President and Dr. Biden (Address) The formula a Vice President whose wife used “Mrs.” would be: The Vice President and Mrs. (surname) (Address) -- Robert Hickey**How to Address a Former US Senator and His Wife?**Dear Mr. Hickey: How do I address a wedding invitation to a former US Senator and his wife? -- Marcia BuchananDear Ms. Buchanan: I cover how to address every level of elected officials (federal, state, and municipal) in Chapter Nine: Joint Forms of Address. On the invitation's envelope write their names like this -- line for line: The Honorable William T. Buchanan and Mrs. Buchanan (Address) Most formally write the official's name on a line by itself. And ... most formally if his wife uses the same last name she does not get her first name. But, if his wife uses a different last name write it like this -- line for line. The Honorable William T. Buchanan and Ms. Marcia Smith (Address) Most formally if she uses a different last name she does get her first name. You didn't ask it, but if you are using an inside envelope write, most formally ..... Senator Buchanan and Mrs. Buchanan What most people want to write is Senator and Mrs. Buchanan like Mr. and Mrs. Buchanan .... but a Mr. is not a Senator and with officials it is best to use their whole name all together ... not broken up. -- Robert Hickey**How to Address a US Representative and His Wife?**Dear Robert, My first cousin Dana is married to a U.S. Congressman (Joe Baxter) from South Carolina. I want to send them a thank-you note. I'm considering the following as the first line on my envelope: The Honorable Joe and Dana Baxter Do you agree? Thanks, -- Jeff Williams, Mayor Pro Tem, Laurel, TexasDear Jeff, You should be looking in my book if you are going to be writing to officials on a regular basis. The most formal way is to NOT break up the official person's name and to give it a line by itself ... so ... most formally on the outside envelope it would be: The Honorable Joe Baxter and Mrs. Baxter (Address) OR a little bit less formally... The Honorable Joe Baxter and Mrs. Baxter (Address) That's the way the White House would send out the envelope. Being a US Representative is after all … a big deal. He's entitled to his whole name, all together. Women who use the same last name as their husbands don't get their first name in a joint form of address: If she used a different last name she's be "and Ms. Dana Williams" And I'd would not suggest you use "Mrs. Dana Baxter" since most traditionally that would a form used in joint address to indicate they were divorced. Then on the inside ... where it's personal ... you would use her given name. Dear Joe and Dana, -- Robert**How To Write My Name as The Mayor with My Doctor Husband?**My husband is a doctor and I am the mayor of our town. How should we be signing registries, cards, etc. as a couple? I am signing as Dr. and Mrs. Carl Wilson. Is that correct? Can my mayor title go anywhere in there? How should I be signing our Christmas Cards? _--- Cate Wilson in Florida, again_Dear Mayor Wilson:If you are signing an official card, register, or guest book as the Mayor--- use the following: Cate Wilson , Mayor of (town) and Dr. Carl Wilson I am suggesting you put your self first: as an elected official you have higher precedence that your husband. And I am suggesting you don't call yourself Mayor Cate Wilson, since one doesn't give oneself an honorific (I don't introduce myself saying "Hi I am Mr. Robert Hickey.") And one doesn't identify oneself as The Honorable (full name). Inside personal holiday cards -- not sent as the Mayor but by you and your husband -- you could use the same as you use officially if you want to Cate Wilson , Mayor of (town) and Dr. Carl Wilson ... or you could use your social name ... Dr. and Mrs. Carl Wilson. Either way, if you are sending it to close friends and family -- draw a line through the printed names and and write by hand your first names ... "Cate and Carl" -- Robert HickeyHow to List a Mayor and a Physician? How do you recognize (on our event signage) this husband and wife when the wife is an MD and her husband is our new Mayor? Before he was Mayor, we always listed them as: Jane Smith Doe, M.D. and John A. Doe I was hoping she would tell me how she would like to be listed but she suggested I check an etiquette book! -- EG in Atlanta Dear EG: I have a chapter in my book just joint forms of address, because they are complicated! Elected officials are higher in precedence than those holding academic degrees. Depending if you want to list her with the official or social form of her name, the options are: The Honorable John A. Doe and Jane Smith Doe, M.D. The Honorable John A. Doe and Dr. Jane Smith Doe Unless it's her event and he's listed just as her spouse: then the name order would be the other way around. -- Robert Hickey How to Address an Envelope to a Mayor and His Wife? How does one address the envelope of an invitation to the mayor of a city and his wife? -- Susan HensleyDear Ms. Hensley: I cover how to all sorts of elected officials and their spouses in Chapter Nine: Joint Forms of Address. You didn't tell me the names ... so depending those ... there are several options. If she uses "Mrs." and uses the same last name ... then traditionally her first name does not appear: The Honorable William Stanton and Mrs. Stanton (Address) This is the form the White House would use for a married couple using the same last name. The rule is not to break up "The Honorable" from "(name)" What you want to avoid is: The Honorable and Mrs. William Stanton (Address) If she uses a different last name, then her first name does appear, e.g.: The Honorable Alan Greenspan and Ms. Andrea Mitchell (Address) If she has her own rank, courtesy title, or some special honorific, then her first name does appear: The Honorable William Stanton and Lieutenant Linda Stanton (Address) The Honorable William Stanton and Dr. Linda Stanton (Address) The Honorable William Stanton and the Reverend Linda Stanton (Address) Probably more answer than you wanted ... but I hope that is useful. -- Robert HickeyHow to Write a Couple's Name On a Donor ListWhen the Husband is a City Councilman? I am President of our Friends of the Library and are engraving some bricks for a new sidewalk path being installed. We are including our Council Members and their wives, but are unsure the proper way of titling them. We are given 3 rows of 16 characters or spaces each. Would you please provide us some guidance? Would we list them as: Council Member Drexel and Kate Douglas Council Member Drexel & Kate Douglas Council Member Pam and Adam Steel Council Member Pam & Adam Steel Or some other variation? We are trying to make this a surprise so have not approached any of them or City Hall. -- Jack Scott Dear Mr. Scott, Hummmm. The options you suggest are awkward because you are combining official and social forms of address ... including an official's elected office ... with .... the couple's names in an social way. Members of city councils are typically addressed on an envelope or in the letter by whatever honorific they are entitled to (Mr./Ms./Dr./etc.), and identified as a member of a council: Mr. Drexel Douglas, Member, Hudson County Council You would never see Senator Evan and Susan Bayh in Washington. Formally when someone holds an office they get their name as a unit ... so .... Senator Evan Bayh and Mrs. Bayh ... is correct ... and is how an invitation would be better addressed to them. If you are limited for space and must include spouses, include the names and leave off the Council Member. Bricks are permanent, membership on the city council is fleeting. -- Robert Hickey **How To Address an Invitation to Hillary & Bill Clinton?**Dear Mr. Hickey:How would you address an invitation to Hillary Clinton and her husband?? -- Phyllis BrownDear Ms. Brown: Truth is you probably wouldn't send an joint invitation unless you are a very close personal friend: it's not like just anyone could say "Hillary, come to dinner and bring your hubby." They each have an office (and scheduler) you'd have to contact. But that said -- Bill Clinton has higher precedence as a former president than a current Secretary of State, so his name would be first. As a former president of the United States he is most formally The Honorable William Jefferson Clinton ... and she is most formally as ... The Honorable Hillary Rodham Clinton. If you going to list their names together on an envelope it would be The Honorable William Jefferson Clinton and The Honorable Hilary Rodham Clinton The most formal way is to put the person's name on a line by itself (like I've shown above), but you could do it on fewer lines too: The Honorable William Jefferson Clinton and The Honorable Hilary Rodham ClintonSalutations would be Dear Mr. Clinton: Dear Madam Secretary: -- Robert HickeyHow to Address Bill, Hillary, Chelsea & Chelsea's fiancé? Hi, Robert! As you know, I sing with Lionheart – and we sang at the Metropolitan Museum of Art last night. We were surprised by some special audience members – Bill and Hillary Clinton, Chelsea and Chelsea's fiancé. Lionheart would like to send them a note thanking them for coming to come hear us. To whom should it be addressed? and what would be the proper salutation? I know it's “Mr. Clinton” and not “President Clinton”, but I'm not sure how to handle a mix of current office-holder, past President, daughter and daughter's fiancé all at once: “Dear Clintons,”? -- Kurt-Owen Richards, The bass-baritone in Lionheart Hi Kurt: It’s great that the Clintons they came to hear you. I enjoyed your concert at The Cloisters earlier this month. This is probably the most frequently asked question I get, though you are the FIRST PERSON who wasn't asking it as a rhetorical question! The Clintons: For a social envelope it would be .... The Honorable William Clinton The Honorable Hillary Clinton and Ms. Chelsea Clinton (Address) You could add "Jefferson" -- his middle name ... and "Rodham" to hers if you want to. The salutation would be Dear Mr. Clinton, Madame Secretary, and Ms. Clinton, Bill is first because former Presidents are #5 on the White House Precedence List ... and current Secretaries of State are #6. I include a version of the White House Precedence List in my book to look up precisely this kind of thing. The Fiance: His note would be addressed to him individually since he’s not a member of the family (yet). You don’t mention his name (I don’t know it and didn’t know she was engaged, actually) but he’d be a “Mr. (full name)” unless you know he’s a “Dr.” or something. If you don’t know his address mentioning his presence in the note to the Clintons would probably do. -- Robert Hickey |
Not Finding Your Question Answered?Below are other topics covered in my blog. If you don't see your question answered send me an e-mail. I am pretty fast at sending a reply and if I think It would be of interest to others, I will post the question and the answer with all the names and personal specifics removed. -- Robert HickeyUSE OF NAMES & HONORIFICS Mr., Miss, Jr., III, & Names Married Women Deceased Persons People with Two TitlesPost-Nominal Abbreviations and Initials Joint Forms of Address (How to address a couple?) USE OF SPECIFIC OFFICIAL TITLES Former Officials Professionals and Academics United States Federal Officials**_, Currently In Office_** United States State Officials, Currently In Office _ _ United States Municipal Officials, Currently In Office All About The Honorable with U.S. Officials Former United States Officials of all types United States Armed Services, Active Duty Addressing Retired Personnel Use of Rank by Retired Personnel Use of Rank by Veterans Tribal Officials Clergy and Religious Officials Canadian Officials Australian Officials British Officials, Royalty, and Nobility Diplomats and International Representatives Foreign National Officials and Nobility SPECIFIC SITUATIONS Etiquette Flags: Traditions and Protocol Introductions Invitations: Writing & Addressing Invitations: Just Armed Service Personnel Name Tags Names on Programs, Signs, & Lists Place Cards Precedence: Ordering Officials Thank You Notes Site updated by Robert Hickey on September 21, 2011  Back to Main Page of the Robert Hickey's BLOG Robert Hickey is the author of Honor & Respect: The Official Guide to Names, Titles, and Forms of Address_Published by The Protocol School of Washington®Foreword by Pamela Eyring_Copyright © 2011 Robert Hickey. All Rights Reserved.Book Photo: Marc Goodman. |